Size of Empire
http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/11/sw-galaxy-size.html
Also:
http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWcompare.html
Size of Federation
In Dominion War we have projected casualties of around 900 billion. That suggests 1.2 to 2 trillion population, which allows for 200 to 500 relatively heavily populated planets. My estimate for human population is between 35 and 70 billion, 50 to 60 billion optimum. That would mean humans count for 1.75 to 5.8 % of total population.
From First Contact we know that "there are 150 planets in Federation, spread over 8 000 light years". Given that Kirk says that "humanity is on thousand worlds and spreading" over century earlier, I would take quote of 150 planets to mean full members, with unindentified number of colonies, probably some thousands.
Territory comparation at my site.
subota, 28. kolovoza 2010.
petak, 27. kolovoza 2010.
Federation shields (unfinished)
Shield physics
Federation shields are weird things, blocking some but not other things; often, one can bypass shields just by getting right frequency. According to display shown below, shields are composed from gravitons - that explains how they stop particle and projectile weapons - but also must have EM/electronic component. Shields seem to operate on same principles like forcefields that we see on starships, blocking corridors in case of emergency etc.
Shield percentage
When shields are hit by weapons, shield strength falls, and that is expressed in percentages. Here we have another proof that shields use some kind of particles that are knocked out by successive hits, since not only that shields degrade by same/similar percentage with every hit, but also do not seem to be blocking entire quantity of energy directed on ship; efficiency seems to be degrading with successive hits. That also means that it is possible that shield percentage also shows their efficiency - so, shields at 100% will stop all of energy directed on target, but shields at 30% will stop only 30% of energy that hits them - at least when it is about energy weapons. That is only theory, thought. Also, screenshot below seems to confirm that shields are at least partially graviton-based; that is possible, since majority of powers uses particle-based weapons (disruptors, phasers).
That my theory is confirmed by "Besto of Both Worlds". When Borg fire shield-draining weapon on Enterprise, Worf reports: "Shield effectiveness has been reduced 12%". After second shot, he reports "Shields have been reduced 41%".
Shield frequencies and modulation
Here we have 3 things:
-confirmation that shields are indeed graviton-based
-energy output of shields
-shield modulation
Second value is most interesting beacouse it could give us strength of Galaxy-class starship's shields.
As we see here, cochrane is unit for subspace distortion, implying that at least some of Federation weaponry might be subspace-based or have subspace-based component. Other possibility is that subspace field is used to "hold" gravitons in place. Gravitons are theoretical particles responsible for gravitation - theoretically, exchange in gravitons between two masses is what creates gravity. Given that most Star Trek weaponry is particle-based, such shields would be very effective, however, magnetic field is still required against EM-based weaponry like lasers (althought, given that laser beams are composed of photons, graviton shields would be at least partially effective - light itself exhibits properties of both waves and particles) [1] [2] [3].
So Star Trek shields have 3 components - gravitational, electromagnetic and subspace. Unfortunately, that means we can't accurately quantify their strength beacouse it will vary depending on nature of threat.
Also, shield frequency seems to suggest that Federation shields are not permament barrier, but that shields are turned on, shut down and then again turned on many times in second (257.4 million times per second as per screen from "Generation"). Star Trek weapons are also frequency-based, which explains possibility of weapon fire passing throught shields by matching frequency. Also, "regenerative shields" used by Borg and tested by Federation on USS Prometheus work by analyzing frequency of enemy weapons and matching frequency to completely stop weapons fire.
Shield strength from "Relics"
Enterprise-D held orbit in Cromosphere. Altitude was 150 000 kilometers (presumably from surface of star). Temperature of corona is more than 10e6 K (1 000 000 to 6 000 000 K at density of about 100 million to 1 billion particles.
"... the coronal cloud has a thermal energy of 10e51 ergs at 20 kpc..."
1 erg is 10e(-7) J. 1 kpc is 10e19 m or 10e17 km. At 150 000 km energy should be 3.9 x 10e46 J or 9.32 x 10e27 Gt over area of 8.98 x 10e18 square meters. Surface area of E-D shields is 321 700 m^2 when seen from side. Resulting absorbed energy is bit too high (1.397x10e33 J), so I guess I'll have to check all of calculations later.
(unfinished)
Shield geometry
Shields can have oval and hull-hugging shape.
Other uses
Federation shields are weird things, blocking some but not other things; often, one can bypass shields just by getting right frequency. According to display shown below, shields are composed from gravitons - that explains how they stop particle and projectile weapons - but also must have EM/electronic component. Shields seem to operate on same principles like forcefields that we see on starships, blocking corridors in case of emergency etc.
Shield percentage
When shields are hit by weapons, shield strength falls, and that is expressed in percentages. Here we have another proof that shields use some kind of particles that are knocked out by successive hits, since not only that shields degrade by same/similar percentage with every hit, but also do not seem to be blocking entire quantity of energy directed on ship; efficiency seems to be degrading with successive hits. That also means that it is possible that shield percentage also shows their efficiency - so, shields at 100% will stop all of energy directed on target, but shields at 30% will stop only 30% of energy that hits them - at least when it is about energy weapons. That is only theory, thought. Also, screenshot below seems to confirm that shields are at least partially graviton-based; that is possible, since majority of powers uses particle-based weapons (disruptors, phasers).
That my theory is confirmed by "Besto of Both Worlds". When Borg fire shield-draining weapon on Enterprise, Worf reports: "Shield effectiveness has been reduced 12%". After second shot, he reports "Shields have been reduced 41%".
Shield frequencies and modulation
Here we have 3 things:
-confirmation that shields are indeed graviton-based
-energy output of shields
-shield modulation
Second value is most interesting beacouse it could give us strength of Galaxy-class starship's shields.
As we see here, cochrane is unit for subspace distortion, implying that at least some of Federation weaponry might be subspace-based or have subspace-based component. Other possibility is that subspace field is used to "hold" gravitons in place. Gravitons are theoretical particles responsible for gravitation - theoretically, exchange in gravitons between two masses is what creates gravity. Given that most Star Trek weaponry is particle-based, such shields would be very effective, however, magnetic field is still required against EM-based weaponry like lasers (althought, given that laser beams are composed of photons, graviton shields would be at least partially effective - light itself exhibits properties of both waves and particles) [1] [2] [3].
So Star Trek shields have 3 components - gravitational, electromagnetic and subspace. Unfortunately, that means we can't accurately quantify their strength beacouse it will vary depending on nature of threat.
Also, shield frequency seems to suggest that Federation shields are not permament barrier, but that shields are turned on, shut down and then again turned on many times in second (257.4 million times per second as per screen from "Generation"). Star Trek weapons are also frequency-based, which explains possibility of weapon fire passing throught shields by matching frequency. Also, "regenerative shields" used by Borg and tested by Federation on USS Prometheus work by analyzing frequency of enemy weapons and matching frequency to completely stop weapons fire.
Case 1: shield and weapon frequencies are in perfect match. Shields stop weapons completely
Case 2: shields and weapons are in complete mismatch. Weapons pass throught shields unhindered
Case 3: most common case before advent of regenerative shields. Shields and weapons are in partial match only. Shields stop most of damage but rest passes throught.
Problem is with photon torpedoes - bleedthrought damage from "photons" should be severe if my theory is right, but it rarely seems to be greater than that of phasers. However, nature of shields might have something with that.
Shield strength from "Relics"
Enterprise-D held orbit in Cromosphere. Altitude was 150 000 kilometers (presumably from surface of star). Temperature of corona is more than 10e6 K (1 000 000 to 6 000 000 K at density of about 100 million to 1 billion particles.
"... the coronal cloud has a thermal energy of 10e51 ergs at 20 kpc..."
1 erg is 10e(-7) J. 1 kpc is 10e19 m or 10e17 km. At 150 000 km energy should be 3.9 x 10e46 J or 9.32 x 10e27 Gt over area of 8.98 x 10e18 square meters. Surface area of E-D shields is 321 700 m^2 when seen from side. Resulting absorbed energy is bit too high (1.397x10e33 J), so I guess I'll have to check all of calculations later.
(unfinished)
Shield geometry
Shields can have oval and hull-hugging shape.
Other uses
Photon torpedoes are also shielded; not only they can pass throught shields by using right frequency - only possible if torpedoes themselves are shielded - and sit in core of star for several minutes or dig in planet's crust - but we saw ship in TOS episode "Journey to Babel" which increased strength of its shields enough to make shields glow just like photon torpedo.
NOTES
In TOS episode "The Changeling" Spick reports that "We just absorbed equivalent of 90 of our photon torpedoes. Shields can withstand 3 more such attacks. Fourth attack will shatter shields completely." So TOS shields can absorb equivalent of 360 photon torpedoes of that era.
Shield pages on my site:
http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/shields/deflector_shields.html
http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/shields/regenerative_shields.html
NOTES
In TOS episode "The Changeling" Spick reports that "We just absorbed equivalent of 90 of our photon torpedoes. Shields can withstand 3 more such attacks. Fourth attack will shatter shields completely." So TOS shields can absorb equivalent of 360 photon torpedoes of that era.
Shield pages on my site:
http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/shields/deflector_shields.html
http://picard578.hostoi.com/startrek-vs-starwars/star_trek/space/starship_tactical_systems/shields/regenerative_shields.html
četvrtak, 26. kolovoza 2010.
Phaser rifles
Dominion-war era rifle (Type III A)
Type 3a is my designation for version of rifle we see in Dominion War. Head of rifle is then-standard Starfleet "hair dryer" design, and has flip-up scope which is probably more of miniature viewscreen than traditional scope (if it was traditional scope it would be completely useless, not only due to design but also due to flashlight attached in front of it). Bulky, resillient, with ability fire both single beams (in "normal" and "widebeam" setting) and pulses (latter are usually fired in bursts), 16 power settings, gyrostabilized, but too complex for battlefield usage (as Kira commented), it is survivable tool and weapon in one, just like standard hand phaser. It does not seem to be more powerful than hand phaser, but probably has greater power storage. Range is presumably larger than that of standard phaser; however I can't remember any examples when it was actually shown.
Type III B (First Contact)
This one is my personal favourite along with "Nemesis" rifle. Not only it is ergonomically superior to type A, but also looks like it can take beating and still shoot, unlike type D. We only saw it fire pulses, which could indicate that it is intended primarly for CQC (Close Quarters Combat - in buildings, corridors like these on staships etc), where rapid-fire ability and simplicity are more important than range and precision. Equipped with scope and flashlight.
Type III C (First Contact, Insurrection)
This one seems to be further development of Type III B, possibly as more versatile and multi-role battlefield weapon - that is implied by fact that this type, while it never shown off-axis or widebeam setting like Type III A, and it can be safely assumed it does not have that ability, it was shown to fire both pulses and beams - hence my theory that Type III B was primarly for usage in close quarters combat which is standard when starship gets boarded, while this one is more multi-scenario weapon. In Insurrection, Picard, Worf and Data blasted hole throught cave wall - that might mean that this rifle lacks disintegration setting (indeed, I would not be surprised if it only has "stun" and "kill" settings, as opposed to 16 settings on Type III a). However, Data was holding standard hand phaser in that scene so better explanation would be that they just did not have time/will to change setting before firing.
Type III D (Nemesis)
Rifle seen in "Nemesis" is visually extremely similar to type C, with more powerful flashlight and new targeting sight, behind and above flashlight. It fired pulses in faster succession and pulses themselves were smaller than those in First Contact and Insurrection. For all intents and purposes, it seems to be just shipboard version of Type III C (something similar to M4 when compared to M16 - M4 is just smaller, carbine version of M16 optimized for CQC), possibly replacing Type III B.
Type III B EVA
EVA version of Type III B, optimised for EVA combat (in situations that require EVA suit and its fat gloves). It has forward grip, much like M4, for faster aiming, and trigger guard is removed. Remainder of rifle is also redesigned, with more rounded barrell and different rifle butt when compared to standard Type B.
Size of Imperial Fleet
"No, the entire Imperial fleet couldn't have done this. It would take a thousand ships massing a lot more firepower than has ever existed."
That Solo's quote could imply that entire Imperial Starfleet is less than 1000 capital ships strong. Given that single fleet protecting Death Star had 1 Super Star Destroyer (SSD) and ~20 Star Destroyers, we can assume 47 Super Star Destroyers and 940 Star Destroyers.
Solo might not be military man, but he is resident of that place and time, and we should not assume he is wrong. I already know that Croatian fleet has only 5 missile boats, with 3 of these being home-produced, even without checking Wikipedia (written on 28. 11. 2010.).
There is also one quote from RotS novelization:
"With little else to lose, Ackbar decided to try Calrissian's strategy. In the next minutes, dozens of Rebel Cruisers moved in astronomically close to the Imperial Star Destroyers—and the colossal antagonists began blasting away at each other, like tanks at twenty paces, while hundreds of tiny fighters raced across their surfaces, zipping between laser bolts as they chased around the massive hulls."
"Dozen" means thirty. So we have several hundred Rebel cruiser and presumably similar number of ISD's. That gives Imperial fleet size of 5 SSD's and 1000 ISD's. However, movie is still higher canon.
Way better analysis on my site.
That Solo's quote could imply that entire Imperial Starfleet is less than 1000 capital ships strong. Given that single fleet protecting Death Star had 1 Super Star Destroyer (SSD) and ~20 Star Destroyers, we can assume 47 Super Star Destroyers and 940 Star Destroyers.
Solo might not be military man, but he is resident of that place and time, and we should not assume he is wrong. I already know that Croatian fleet has only 5 missile boats, with 3 of these being home-produced, even without checking Wikipedia (written on 28. 11. 2010.).
There is also one quote from RotS novelization:
"With little else to lose, Ackbar decided to try Calrissian's strategy. In the next minutes, dozens of Rebel Cruisers moved in astronomically close to the Imperial Star Destroyers—and the colossal antagonists began blasting away at each other, like tanks at twenty paces, while hundreds of tiny fighters raced across their surfaces, zipping between laser bolts as they chased around the massive hulls."
"Dozen" means thirty. So we have several hundred Rebel cruiser and presumably similar number of ISD's. That gives Imperial fleet size of 5 SSD's and 1000 ISD's. However, movie is still higher canon.
Way better analysis on my site.
srijeda, 25. kolovoza 2010.
Planetary defences
Planetary Shields
Star Wars planetary shields
Star Wars does have theatre shields, like one protecting Rebel base on Hoth in TESB, but there is no evidence of planetary shields in canon. Some say that dialogue supports planetary shield on Hoth, but there are some problems with planetary shield:
1) If shield was stopping orbital bombardment, and ships could pass through it, Empire just needed to send several bomber squadrons and/or Star Destroyers to bombard Rebel base from under the shield. Also, there would be no need to drop shield to allow escaping transports to pass throught shield.
2) If such shield can stop ships, how Empire landed troops on planet? Shield was clearly still operable by time General Veers ordered walkers to shoot at shield generator.
Also, let's get closer look at dialogue:
VEERS: My lord, the fleet has moves out of light-speed. Com-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area around the sixth planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.
Later:
VADER: Make ready to land out troops beyond the energy shield and deploy the fleet so that nothing gets off that system. You are in command now, Admiral Piett.
So, whatever that "energy field" was, it was not planetary shield.
As for RotS novelization, it does support planetary shield but that goes against higher canon (movies). For details, see here.
CONCLUSION: We have absolutely no evidence of planetary shields in Star Wars canon.
Star trek planetary shields
Planetary shields as existed in Trek as far back as TOS. The first example being the shield protecting the Tantalus penal colony in "Dagger of the Mind" that at the very least blocked transporters. The second and more formidable one appears in "Whom Gods Destroy" which was projected from the Elba II Asylum dome and was powerful enough to resist the firepower of the E-1701's main phaser banks even at it's weakest point on the side of the planet opposite the asylum.
This is dialogue from "Whom Gods Destroy":
SCOTTY: "Sensor readings."
SULU: "Forcefield is weakest on far side of the planet."
Nothng conclusive is mentioned throughout the movies, TNG and DS9, though in episodes like "Gambit, Part 1", there is at least theater coverage shielding for a small scientific outpost along with phasers and possibly photon torpeodes. However VOY's "Year of Hell, Part 2" implies strongly that even relatively primitive starfaring civilizations ought to have them, and "Nightingale" actually shows one in operation protecting the Kraylor homeworld from bombardment and invasion by the Annari fleet blockading it.
Also, episode "The Chase" from TNG shows that one Vor'Cha class Attack Cruiser is able to destroy life on entire world, down to last mollecule, by using chain reaction - that means that full planetary shields must be in use, beacouse theatre shields would be useless. Also, in TNG episode "Chain of Command", main problem with Cardassian bioweapon-delivery system was not that it can deliver microbes over great distance without carrying missile or ship, but rather that it can do so without target realizing it (and raising shields). "Die is Cast" also seems to confirm existence of planetary shields:
TAIN: "...and begin massive bombardment..."
GARAK: "Well, that should more than take care about the Founders."
TAIN: "Yes, unless Founders have some planetary defences we don't know about" (emphasis mine). Within context, it is clear that he was talking about planetary shields.
Also, Breen attack on San Francisco caused only slight damage, most likely bleedthrought from planetary shield.
Active defences
Star Wars
Hoth ion cannon
Rebel Ion canon on Hoth seems to be able to not only completely disable Star Destroyer, but also to bypass/defeat shields. One way or another, it is clear that Imperial and Star Wars shields in general are vulnerable to disruption or penetration by electronic shots, since shields did not seem to affect ion pulses fired by canon, and Star Destroyer was left completely powerless and adrift.
Star Trek
We don't knaw what kind of planetary defences Federation has, but we can guess when looking Federation's neighbours.
Cardassians deployed weapon platforms. These seemed to be fairly recent development from their alliance with Dominion, but again Federation is more advanced but more peace-loving state. Better guess would be orbital stations - we seen some Starbases, like Spacedock (in orbit around Earth) and Starbase 375. Also mentioned are "antiquated" PDS on Betazed, that were inadequate in stopping Dominion attack without fleet support. However, we never see PDS in action, probably due to budgetary reasons.
These might be planetary-based phaser emitters and torpedo launchers, since we know that Cardassians have designed special type of disruptor for planetary defence and according to non-canon technical manuals, phasers used by Sovereign and Prometheus class starships were originally used for planetary defence.
Star Trek active planetary defences
Star Trek passive planetary defences
Star Wars active planetary defences
Star Wars passive planetary defences
Star Wars planetary shields
Star Wars does have theatre shields, like one protecting Rebel base on Hoth in TESB, but there is no evidence of planetary shields in canon. Some say that dialogue supports planetary shield on Hoth, but there are some problems with planetary shield:
1) If shield was stopping orbital bombardment, and ships could pass through it, Empire just needed to send several bomber squadrons and/or Star Destroyers to bombard Rebel base from under the shield. Also, there would be no need to drop shield to allow escaping transports to pass throught shield.
2) If such shield can stop ships, how Empire landed troops on planet? Shield was clearly still operable by time General Veers ordered walkers to shoot at shield generator.
Also, let's get closer look at dialogue:
VEERS: My lord, the fleet has moves out of light-speed. Com-Scan has detected an energy field protecting an area around the sixth planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment.
Later:
VADER: Make ready to land out troops beyond the energy shield and deploy the fleet so that nothing gets off that system. You are in command now, Admiral Piett.
So, whatever that "energy field" was, it was not planetary shield.
As for RotS novelization, it does support planetary shield but that goes against higher canon (movies). For details, see here.
CONCLUSION: We have absolutely no evidence of planetary shields in Star Wars canon.
Star trek planetary shields
Planetary shields as existed in Trek as far back as TOS. The first example being the shield protecting the Tantalus penal colony in "Dagger of the Mind" that at the very least blocked transporters. The second and more formidable one appears in "Whom Gods Destroy" which was projected from the Elba II Asylum dome and was powerful enough to resist the firepower of the E-1701's main phaser banks even at it's weakest point on the side of the planet opposite the asylum.
This is dialogue from "Whom Gods Destroy":
SCOTTY: "Sensor readings."
SULU: "Forcefield is weakest on far side of the planet."
Nothng conclusive is mentioned throughout the movies, TNG and DS9, though in episodes like "Gambit, Part 1", there is at least theater coverage shielding for a small scientific outpost along with phasers and possibly photon torpeodes. However VOY's "Year of Hell, Part 2" implies strongly that even relatively primitive starfaring civilizations ought to have them, and "Nightingale" actually shows one in operation protecting the Kraylor homeworld from bombardment and invasion by the Annari fleet blockading it.
Also, episode "The Chase" from TNG shows that one Vor'Cha class Attack Cruiser is able to destroy life on entire world, down to last mollecule, by using chain reaction - that means that full planetary shields must be in use, beacouse theatre shields would be useless. Also, in TNG episode "Chain of Command", main problem with Cardassian bioweapon-delivery system was not that it can deliver microbes over great distance without carrying missile or ship, but rather that it can do so without target realizing it (and raising shields). "Die is Cast" also seems to confirm existence of planetary shields:
TAIN: "...and begin massive bombardment..."
GARAK: "Well, that should more than take care about the Founders."
TAIN: "Yes, unless Founders have some planetary defences we don't know about" (emphasis mine). Within context, it is clear that he was talking about planetary shields.
Also, Breen attack on San Francisco caused only slight damage, most likely bleedthrought from planetary shield.
Active defences
Star Wars
Hoth ion cannon
Rebel Ion canon on Hoth seems to be able to not only completely disable Star Destroyer, but also to bypass/defeat shields. One way or another, it is clear that Imperial and Star Wars shields in general are vulnerable to disruption or penetration by electronic shots, since shields did not seem to affect ion pulses fired by canon, and Star Destroyer was left completely powerless and adrift.
Star Trek
We don't knaw what kind of planetary defences Federation has, but we can guess when looking Federation's neighbours.
Cardassians deployed weapon platforms. These seemed to be fairly recent development from their alliance with Dominion, but again Federation is more advanced but more peace-loving state. Better guess would be orbital stations - we seen some Starbases, like Spacedock (in orbit around Earth) and Starbase 375. Also mentioned are "antiquated" PDS on Betazed, that were inadequate in stopping Dominion attack without fleet support. However, we never see PDS in action, probably due to budgetary reasons.
These might be planetary-based phaser emitters and torpedo launchers, since we know that Cardassians have designed special type of disruptor for planetary defence and according to non-canon technical manuals, phasers used by Sovereign and Prometheus class starships were originally used for planetary defence.
Star Trek active planetary defences
Star Trek passive planetary defences
Star Wars active planetary defences
Star Wars passive planetary defences
Size of Starfleet and other fleets
There are possibly 700 Starbases so 7 000-ship fleet is reasonable for Starfleet to maintain. Possibly even larger; however, we know that runabouts are included in NCC sequence and there is no way of knowing how large number of runabouts is when compared to capital ships, and I will do numbering for capital ships only. Given that by DS9 ship registries are in 70 000's, fleet of 30 - 50 000 ships with 7 000 to 30 000 being capital ships is reasonable.
In "The Dogs of War" Romulan commander is worried about losing "thousands of ships" in final assault on Dominion lines. But we have no clear figure.
Galaxy class: 120 (starting value)
EDIT: I ended my analysis, but Galaxy class appears too often, giving too low number of 682 ships in Starfleet. However, given that Galaxies will always be in middle of fight, just like Defiant, it is not very unreasonable to assume that actual percentage of GCS in fleet is lower. So I will assume that only 1/10 of fleet is shown, and only 12 Galaxy class ships within that part of fleet. So we have 6820 capital ships for Starfleet with 34 000 high limit.
I got these numbers from DS9 analysis:
120 Galaxy class starships
560 Excelsior class starships
610 Miranda class starships
90 Defiant class starships
180 Akira class starships
100 Saber class starships
90 Nebula class starships
However, other classes' appearances are less clear. Also, these numbers might be only ships that participated in Dominion war; given wierd warp speeds, Starfleet might or might not be able to get all ships to front lines. If entire fleet did participated in war, we have 6820 capital ships; if it did not, then number is around 34 000 ships.
I will now go with fleet sizes for all powers:
Lower value:
Starfleet: 6820 ships
Klingon fleet: 5456 to 6138 ships (2728 to 3069 BoP; 1705 to 1918 Vor'Cha; 682 to 767 K't'inga; 341 to 384 Negh'var).
Cardassian fleet: 1705 ships (1500 Galor and 205 Keldon class)
Romulan fleet: 974 D'deridex class warbirds
Breen fleet: 568 ships
Higher value:
Starfleet: 34 000 ships
Klingon fleet: 27 200 to 30 600 ships (13 600 to 15 300 BoP; 8500 to 9561 Vor'Cha; 3400 to 3824 K't'inga; 1700 to 1915 Negh'var)
Cardassian fleet: 8500 ships (7478 Galor and 1022 Keldon class)
Romulan fleet: 4856 D'deridex class warbirds
Breen fleet: 2832 ships
Additional analysis
There might be 1000 Excelsior and 300 Sabers in Starfleet. That means up to 2.5 times larger number, which gives 120 Galaxies, 1000 Excelsiors, 300 Sabers, 1200 Miranda, 180 Defiant, 405 Akira, 220 Nebula class starships, ending with 17 050 capital ships in Starfleet.
So:
Starfleet: 17 050 ships
KDF: 13 600 to 15 300 ships
Cardassian Guard: 4 250 ships
Romulan fleet: 2428 warbirds
Breen fleet: 1416 ships
UPDATE: It might be possible to get starship number by using number of starbases as basis. Here we have screenshot showing 16 ships (1 Defiant class, 2 Galaxy class, 5 Excelsior class, 4 Miranda class and 4 Centurion class ships) nearby. Highest starbase number we hear about is 718. If we use ratio of 20 ships for one starbase we get 14 360 ships (20 ships were what Captain Picard succeded in rallying for Klingon Civil War). If we use 16:1 ratio, we get 11 500 ships. However, not all starbases are space stations, so we can end up with 8 000 to 10 000 ships in Starfleet.
In "BoBW" we know that 39 ships will be replaced in "under a year". "Under a year" might be 6 months to 364 days. If we have 4 ships per month, with ships having lifespan of around 100 years, we get a fleet of almost 5000 ships for peacetime production. Given that Federation already fought several wars and probably boosted ship production during that time (possibly explaining large amount of Excelsiors) 8 000 ships is at least possible.
Starfleet size analysis on my site
In "The Dogs of War" Romulan commander is worried about losing "thousands of ships" in final assault on Dominion lines. But we have no clear figure.
Galaxy class: 120 (starting value)
EDIT: I ended my analysis, but Galaxy class appears too often, giving too low number of 682 ships in Starfleet. However, given that Galaxies will always be in middle of fight, just like Defiant, it is not very unreasonable to assume that actual percentage of GCS in fleet is lower. So I will assume that only 1/10 of fleet is shown, and only 12 Galaxy class ships within that part of fleet. So we have 6820 capital ships for Starfleet with 34 000 high limit.
I got these numbers from DS9 analysis:
120 Galaxy class starships
560 Excelsior class starships
610 Miranda class starships
90 Defiant class starships
180 Akira class starships
100 Saber class starships
90 Nebula class starships
However, other classes' appearances are less clear. Also, these numbers might be only ships that participated in Dominion war; given wierd warp speeds, Starfleet might or might not be able to get all ships to front lines. If entire fleet did participated in war, we have 6820 capital ships; if it did not, then number is around 34 000 ships.
I will now go with fleet sizes for all powers:
Lower value:
Starfleet: 6820 ships
Klingon fleet: 5456 to 6138 ships (2728 to 3069 BoP; 1705 to 1918 Vor'Cha; 682 to 767 K't'inga; 341 to 384 Negh'var).
Cardassian fleet: 1705 ships (1500 Galor and 205 Keldon class)
Romulan fleet: 974 D'deridex class warbirds
Breen fleet: 568 ships
Higher value:
Starfleet: 34 000 ships
Klingon fleet: 27 200 to 30 600 ships (13 600 to 15 300 BoP; 8500 to 9561 Vor'Cha; 3400 to 3824 K't'inga; 1700 to 1915 Negh'var)
Cardassian fleet: 8500 ships (7478 Galor and 1022 Keldon class)
Romulan fleet: 4856 D'deridex class warbirds
Breen fleet: 2832 ships
Additional analysis
There might be 1000 Excelsior and 300 Sabers in Starfleet. That means up to 2.5 times larger number, which gives 120 Galaxies, 1000 Excelsiors, 300 Sabers, 1200 Miranda, 180 Defiant, 405 Akira, 220 Nebula class starships, ending with 17 050 capital ships in Starfleet.
So:
Starfleet: 17 050 ships
KDF: 13 600 to 15 300 ships
Cardassian Guard: 4 250 ships
Romulan fleet: 2428 warbirds
Breen fleet: 1416 ships
UPDATE: It might be possible to get starship number by using number of starbases as basis. Here we have screenshot showing 16 ships (1 Defiant class, 2 Galaxy class, 5 Excelsior class, 4 Miranda class and 4 Centurion class ships) nearby. Highest starbase number we hear about is 718. If we use ratio of 20 ships for one starbase we get 14 360 ships (20 ships were what Captain Picard succeded in rallying for Klingon Civil War). If we use 16:1 ratio, we get 11 500 ships. However, not all starbases are space stations, so we can end up with 8 000 to 10 000 ships in Starfleet.
In "BoBW" we know that 39 ships will be replaced in "under a year". "Under a year" might be 6 months to 364 days. If we have 4 ships per month, with ships having lifespan of around 100 years, we get a fleet of almost 5000 ships for peacetime production. Given that Federation already fought several wars and probably boosted ship production during that time (possibly explaining large amount of Excelsiors) 8 000 ships is at least possible.
Starfleet size analysis on my site
ponedjeljak, 23. kolovoza 2010.
Proton torpedo yield
In attack on Death Star II's main reactor, proton torpedoes are deemed to have too small yield to damage reactor; instead, Wedge fired torpedoes on "power regulator", which produced 20 m wide and 40 m high explosion; using Wong's calculator, that would give 1 kiloton warhead for fighter-grade weapon (no wonder proton torpedoes are used exclusively on fighters; other ships would make no use of having them on-board).
( This gives it equivalent of 1 ton of TNT).
However, these figures are dubious at best. For one, explosions in vacuum do not behave like normal explosions, and as such yield should be higher. On other hand, they were targeting reactor, which would lower yield.
Analysis on my site.
( This gives it equivalent of 1 ton of TNT).
However, these figures are dubious at best. For one, explosions in vacuum do not behave like normal explosions, and as such yield should be higher. On other hand, they were targeting reactor, which would lower yield.
Analysis on my site.
Sensors range (unfinished)
Star Trek
In "Silicon Avatar" we see Enterprise at warp. Sensors detected disturbance on Melana 4, which is 27 hours away at their current speed, which is warp, but below warp 8. So minimum sensors range is 27 light hours or 2.916 x 10e10 kilometers.
In "The Wounded" we have Enterprise searching for Nebula-class starship that was on silent running and probably used some measures to hide itself. Enterprise scanns radius of 10 light years, but we don't know from which range they detected Phoenix.
Voyager episode "The Raven" gives us sensors range of y light years when searching for Borg ship.
TNG episode "The Chase" states that Federation long-range sensors cannot detect limited-scale life on planet; however, they can detect state of oceans on planet.
Star Wars
From ANH novelization we know that ships in hyperspace cannot be tracked accurately, but their vector apparently can be roughly determined (TESB novelization). Imperial Star Destroyer was unable to detect Millenium Falcon sitting on back of their command tower, and had trouble tracking ships above or below horizontal plane, suggesting 2D radar-type sensors mounted in globes.
(unfinished)
In "Silicon Avatar" we see Enterprise at warp. Sensors detected disturbance on Melana 4, which is 27 hours away at their current speed, which is warp, but below warp 8. So minimum sensors range is 27 light hours or 2.916 x 10e10 kilometers.
In "The Wounded" we have Enterprise searching for Nebula-class starship that was on silent running and probably used some measures to hide itself. Enterprise scanns radius of 10 light years, but we don't know from which range they detected Phoenix.
Voyager episode "The Raven" gives us sensors range of y light years when searching for Borg ship.
TNG episode "The Chase" states that Federation long-range sensors cannot detect limited-scale life on planet; however, they can detect state of oceans on planet.
Star Wars
From ANH novelization we know that ships in hyperspace cannot be tracked accurately, but their vector apparently can be roughly determined (TESB novelization). Imperial Star Destroyer was unable to detect Millenium Falcon sitting on back of their command tower, and had trouble tracking ships above or below horizontal plane, suggesting 2D radar-type sensors mounted in globes.
(unfinished)
Canon
Star Wars canon
"The Star Wars canon was first defined in a 1994 interview with Lucas Licensing's Sue Rostoni and Allan Kausch in issue #23 of the Star Wars Insider:
“ Gospel, or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history — with many off-shoots, variations and tangents — like any other well-developed mythology. ”
This policy has been further refined and fleshed out over the years. The official Star Wars website has also detailed the role of canon, Expanded Universe, or "EU" sources, and how they fit into overall Star Wars continuity. In a 2001 "Ask the Jedi Council" response by Steve Sansweet (director of fan relations) and Chris Cerasi (an editor for Lucas Books at the time), it was stated that:
“ When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves — and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.
The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.
The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them."
So movies are only true canon, followed by novelizations and radio plays.
Star Trek canon
"The Star Trek canon is the set of all canonical material in the Star Trek universe. It is usually defined as comprising the television series Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and the first ten motion pictures in the franchise.[1] However, the official Star Trek website acknowledges that this definition is not set in stone, but that the notion of what constitutes canon in Star Trek is fluid, open to interpretation and debate.[1]
As a rule, all live action Star Trek TV series that aired are considered canon, while the cartoon Star Trek: The Animated Series and the planned but cancelled live action Star Trek: Phase II are not canon.[1] However, this policy does not make clear which version of the live action shows is the canon one. Indeed, there exist longer and shorter versions of several episodes. For example, in the 1960s during the original run of the Star Trek TV series (TOS), an hour-long show was actually 51 minutes excluding commercials, and modern DVD releases of TOS episodes are also 51 minutes long. However, as of 2007[update], an hour-long show on television is only about 42 minutes long. The canonicity of the missing nine minutes of material in modern airings of TOS episodes has never been addressed. Likewise, when special two-hour-long episodes are aired as two one-hour-long episodes in syndication, several minutes of material have to be cut to make time for the duplication of the opening and closing credits. The canonicity of this cut material has also never been addressed. Finally, the remastered TOS episodes released in 2006 present several visual differences from the episodes originally aired.[2]
To further complicate matters, it has been noted that Gene Roddenberry was something of a revisionist when it came to canon. People who worked with Roddenberry remember that he used to handle canon not on a series-by-series basis nor an episode-by-episode basis, but point by point. If he changed his mind on something, or if a fact in one episode contradicted what he considered to be a more important fact in another episode, he had no problem declaring that specific point non-canon.
See, people can easily catch us, and say "well, wait a minute, in 'Balance of Terror', they knew that the Romulans had a cloaking device, and then in 'The Enterprise Incident', they don't know anything about cloaking devices, but they're gonna steal this one because it's obviously just been developed, so how the hell do you explain that?" We can't. There are some things we just can't explain, especially when it comes from the third season. So, yes, third season is canon up to the point of contradiction, or where it's just so bad... you know, we kind of cringe when people ask us, "well, what happened in 'Plato's Stepchildren', and 'And the Children Shall Lead', and 'Spock's Brain', and so on — it's like, please, he wasn't even producing it at that point. But, generally, [canon is] the original series, not really the animated, the first movie to a certain extent, the rest of the films in certain aspects but not in all... I know that it's very difficult to understand. It literally is point by point. I sometimes do not know how he's going to answer a question when I go into his office, I really do not always know, and — and I know it better probably than anybody, what it is that Gene likes and doesn't like.[3]— Richard Arnold, 1991
Another thing that makes canon a little confusing. Gene R. himself had a habit of decanonizing things. He didn't like the way the animated series turned out, so he proclaimed that it was not canon. He also didn't like a lot of the movies. So he didn't much consider them canon either. And – okay, I'm really going to scare you with this one – after he got TNG going, he... well... he sort of decided that some of The Original Series wasn't canon either. I had a discussion with him once, where I cited a couple things that were very clearly canon in The Original Series, and he told me he didn't think that way anymore, and that he now thought of TNG as canon wherever there was conflict between the two. He admitted it was revisionist thinking, but so be it.[4]— Paula Block, 2005
Additionally, David Gerrold, in an interview about Star Trek: The Animated Series, commented on Roddenberry's parsimony and how it originally affected "canon":
Arguments about "canon" are silly. I always felt that Star Trek Animated was part of Star Trek because Gene Roddenberry accepted the paycheck for it and put his name on the credits. And DC Fontana -- and all the other writers involved -- busted their butts to make it the best Star Trek they could. But this whole business of "canon" really originated with Gene's errand boy. Gene liked giving people titles instead of raises, so the errand boy got named "archivist" and apparently it went to his head. Gene handed him the responsibility of answering all fan questions, silly or otherwise, and he apparently let that go to his head.[5]
Another factor that contributes to blur the line between canon and non-canon is the fact that some writers like to include elements from popular non-canon works into canon episodes.[6] Such is the case, for instance, of several concepts that first appeared in the Animated Series' episode "Yesteryear", including The Forge and the city of ShiKahr, and which were later included in the Enterprise three-part story that started with "The Forge".[7] However, despite the fact that elements borrowed from the Animated Series are considered canon, the series itself remains decidedly non-canon.[8]
One final issue comes from text that appears on props such as computer displays, but is not legible during the episode, except in modern HDTV broadcasts. The transcript of the text can often be obtained through behind-the-scenes pictures and interviews. This leads to the question of whether material that is in the episodes but cannot be seen clearly should be considered canon. Although there is no answer valid for all this material. In many cases this material tends to be inside jokes inserted by the production staff[9], other kinds of information, such as the biographical information seen on a computer display in "In a Mirror, Darkly", has been clearly declared not to be "hard canon".[10]
[edit] Films
As of 2009, the first ten live action Star Trek films produced to that date are considered canon.[1] However, much like for TV series, this policy fails to note which version of the films is canon. This leaves unknown the canonicity of scenes missing from the theatrical version of a film but included in home releases or director's cuts. Such is the case, for example, of a scene revealing that the character of Peter Preston was the nephew of Scotty in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.[11]
Adding confusion to the issue is the fact that Roddenberry is quoted as saying he did not like the films, and "didn't much consider them canon".[4] There exists no definitive list of which films in particular Roddenberry disliked, or what elements in them he did not consider canon. For example, the reference book Star Trek Chronology states that Roddenberry considered elements of Star Trek V and Star Trek VI to be apocryphal, but it does not specify which particular elements in the films Roddenberry objected to.[12]
The canonicity of extra features found on home DVD releases, such as deleted scenes, has never been explicitly addressed.
[edit] Publications
[edit] Fiction novels
Many of the original novels published by Pocket Books are not considered part of the canon.[1] This was a guideline set early on by Gene Roddenberry, and repeated many times by people who worked with him.
And as long as Gene Roddenberry is involved in it, he is the final word on what is Star Trek. So, for us here – Ron Moore, Jeri Taylor, everybody who works on the show – Gene is the authority. And when he says that the books, and the games, and the comics and everything else, are not gospel, but are only additional Star Trek based on his Star Trek but not part of the actual Star Trek universe that he created... they're just, you know, kinda fun to keep you occupied between episodes and between movies, whatever... but he does not want that to be considered to be sources of information for writers, working on this show, he doesn't want it to be considered part of the canon by anybody working on any other projects.[3]— Richard Arnold, 1991
However, even this rule is not without its exception. Two Voyager novels written by Jeri Taylor (co-creator and then producer of Voyager), Mosaic and Pathways, were written early on in Voyager's run and detailed the background of the show's main characters.[1] These were meant to be canon, and to be used as references by the show's writers when fleshing out the characters. These two novels are sometimes named as exceptions to the "no book is canon" rule.[13] However, as some of the background information mentioned in those books was never referenced in an episode of Voyager, their status as canon is still open to debate.[1]
[edit] Novelizations
The novelizations of episodes and movies are not considered canon. This is a tradition that goes back to Gene Roddenberry himself. Roddenberry wrote a novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, which included many tangents and new material that were not part of the movie, such as revealing that the woman who dies in the transporter accident was Kirk's lover.[14] While this novel filled in many gaps left in the movie, Roddenberry is quoted as saying it should not be considered canon.[15]
[edit] Reference books
A special case is made for "non-fiction" reference books such as The Star Trek Encyclopedia, Star Trek Chronology, TNG Technical Manual and DS9 Technical Manual. Unlike the novels and novelizations, these reference manuals have never been explicitly named as non-canon, and the fact that they were officially sanctioned by Paramount and given to episode writers as guides serves to give them an aura of credibility. Roddenberry himself considered it part of the "background" of Star Trek.[16] Meanwhile, Michael Okuda and Rick Sternbach, two art and technical consultants since Star Trek: The Next Generation and the authors of several of these reference books, considered their work "pretty official".[17] However, they stop short of naming the books canon, leaving the debate open.
Star Trek writer and co-producer Ronald D. Moore dismisses such official material as "speculation", and says that the writing staff did not consider it canon.[18][19] However, Viacom, the parent company of Paramount, seems to believe differently. In a series of posts to the official Star Trek website's forums, Viacom Senior Director Harry Lang left no doubt that he considers the reference books as canon.[13][20]
[edit] Other publications
The Star Trek comic books and Star Trek magazines are not considered canon.[1][3]
[edit] Other material
Nothing that takes place in Star Trek games, the Star Trek: The Experience attraction, Star Trek fan productions or Trekdom is considered canon.[1][3]
[edit] Roddenberry-approved material
Based on the amount of creative control Roddenberry exerted over the first seasons of Star Trek, some people argue that only Roddenberry-approved material should be considered canon.[21] Such an approach would eliminate from canon anything Roddenberry didn't like, as well as everything made after his death, including six movies and three TV series.
However, Roddenberry himself pre-emptively rebuked such an attitude. He had hoped that Star Trek would go on after his death.[22] As Star Trek was constantly improved by each following generation, he expected people to look back upon its humble beginnings as just that, the simple beginnings of something much bigger and better.[23] Roddenberry clearly never intended Star Trek to be limited to his work, but to include all the hopefully superior work of future generations.
[edit] Klingon language
The Klingon language was first conceived by James Doohan for the movie Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and consisted only of a few words. Later, Marc Okrand proceeded to flesh out the sparse vocabulary into a real language, complete with grammar rules and phonology, and went so far as to publish The Klingon Dictionary and to create the Klingon Language Institute.[24] Okrand's Klingon language was used to write the Klingon dialogues heard in several Star Trek movies and episodes.[25] Despite these facts, however, Ronald D. Moore stated "Whether or not [Trek writers] use the language as spelled out in Marc's dictionary is up to the individual writer," and that he "find[s] the dictionary cumbersome and usually find[s] it easier to make [the language] up phonetically."[26]"
------------------------------------------
UPDATE ON SW CANON:
"In a December 6, 2006 post, Chee contradicted his original statements regarding the canonicity of the Holocron and how it applied to the Star Wars universe:
“The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we’ve got in the Holocron. You’re never going to know what George’s view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving.”
n August 4, 2004, when asked if the G and C-levels formed separate and independent canon, Leland Chee responded by stating that both were part of a single canon:
“There is one overall continuity.”"
A couple of years later in 2006 he confirms that there is at least one more “continuity” the “film only” continuity maintained and followed by George Lucas himself, and the “films + EU” continuity that is used for licensed products.
The fact is that “films + EU” continuity that is used for licensed products is nothing but a marketing tool to sell stuff and make money, the true canon has only 6 films and novelsation to sell stuff from and as such is limited (after all how many millenium falcon models, ewok dolls or vader masks do you really need).
The EU however opens the market up to any race, shps, tools, games, book ect ect that they can shove into it and obviously they need to give it a psudo canon status or its not “official” merchandise beause not being “official” merchandise of one sort or another means no one will buy it.
-----------------------------------------------
So, both in Star Trek and Star Wars, only on-screen evidence (including on-screen dialogue) is considered canon. Nothing else. In Star Wars, novelizations and radio plays are considered canon only as long as they don't contradict higher canon.
So levels of canonity should go (as I see it):
1) Movies
2) Novelizations
3) Cartoons, like The Clone Wars, etc.
4) Radio dramas
5) Scripts
...and on my site.
"The Star Wars canon was first defined in a 1994 interview with Lucas Licensing's Sue Rostoni and Allan Kausch in issue #23 of the Star Wars Insider:
“ Gospel, or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history — with many off-shoots, variations and tangents — like any other well-developed mythology. ”
This policy has been further refined and fleshed out over the years. The official Star Wars website has also detailed the role of canon, Expanded Universe, or "EU" sources, and how they fit into overall Star Wars continuity. In a 2001 "Ask the Jedi Council" response by Steve Sansweet (director of fan relations) and Chris Cerasi (an editor for Lucas Books at the time), it was stated that:
“ When it comes to absolute canon, the real story of Star Wars, you must turn to the films themselves — and only the films. Even novelizations are interpretations of the film, and while they are largely true to George Lucas' vision (he works quite closely with the novel authors), the method in which they are written does allow for some minor differences. The novelizations are written concurrently with the film's production, so variations in detail do creep in from time to time. Nonetheless, they should be regarded as very accurate depictions of the fictional Star Wars movies.
The further one branches away from the movies, the more interpretation and speculation come into play. LucasBooks works diligently to keep the continuing Star Wars expanded universe cohesive and uniform, but stylistically, there is always room for variation. Not all artists draw Luke Skywalker the same way. Not all writers define the character in the same fashion. The particular attributes of individual media also come into play. A comic book interpretation of an event will likely have less dialogue or different pacing than a novel version. A video game has to take an interactive approach that favors gameplay. So too must card and roleplaying games ascribe certain characteristics to characters and events in order to make them playable.
The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them."
So movies are only true canon, followed by novelizations and radio plays.
Star Trek canon
"The Star Trek canon is the set of all canonical material in the Star Trek universe. It is usually defined as comprising the television series Star Trek, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and the first ten motion pictures in the franchise.[1] However, the official Star Trek website acknowledges that this definition is not set in stone, but that the notion of what constitutes canon in Star Trek is fluid, open to interpretation and debate.[1]
As a rule, all live action Star Trek TV series that aired are considered canon, while the cartoon Star Trek: The Animated Series and the planned but cancelled live action Star Trek: Phase II are not canon.[1] However, this policy does not make clear which version of the live action shows is the canon one. Indeed, there exist longer and shorter versions of several episodes. For example, in the 1960s during the original run of the Star Trek TV series (TOS), an hour-long show was actually 51 minutes excluding commercials, and modern DVD releases of TOS episodes are also 51 minutes long. However, as of 2007[update], an hour-long show on television is only about 42 minutes long. The canonicity of the missing nine minutes of material in modern airings of TOS episodes has never been addressed. Likewise, when special two-hour-long episodes are aired as two one-hour-long episodes in syndication, several minutes of material have to be cut to make time for the duplication of the opening and closing credits. The canonicity of this cut material has also never been addressed. Finally, the remastered TOS episodes released in 2006 present several visual differences from the episodes originally aired.[2]
To further complicate matters, it has been noted that Gene Roddenberry was something of a revisionist when it came to canon. People who worked with Roddenberry remember that he used to handle canon not on a series-by-series basis nor an episode-by-episode basis, but point by point. If he changed his mind on something, or if a fact in one episode contradicted what he considered to be a more important fact in another episode, he had no problem declaring that specific point non-canon.
See, people can easily catch us, and say "well, wait a minute, in 'Balance of Terror', they knew that the Romulans had a cloaking device, and then in 'The Enterprise Incident', they don't know anything about cloaking devices, but they're gonna steal this one because it's obviously just been developed, so how the hell do you explain that?" We can't. There are some things we just can't explain, especially when it comes from the third season. So, yes, third season is canon up to the point of contradiction, or where it's just so bad... you know, we kind of cringe when people ask us, "well, what happened in 'Plato's Stepchildren', and 'And the Children Shall Lead', and 'Spock's Brain', and so on — it's like, please, he wasn't even producing it at that point. But, generally, [canon is] the original series, not really the animated, the first movie to a certain extent, the rest of the films in certain aspects but not in all... I know that it's very difficult to understand. It literally is point by point. I sometimes do not know how he's going to answer a question when I go into his office, I really do not always know, and — and I know it better probably than anybody, what it is that Gene likes and doesn't like.[3]— Richard Arnold, 1991
Another thing that makes canon a little confusing. Gene R. himself had a habit of decanonizing things. He didn't like the way the animated series turned out, so he proclaimed that it was not canon. He also didn't like a lot of the movies. So he didn't much consider them canon either. And – okay, I'm really going to scare you with this one – after he got TNG going, he... well... he sort of decided that some of The Original Series wasn't canon either. I had a discussion with him once, where I cited a couple things that were very clearly canon in The Original Series, and he told me he didn't think that way anymore, and that he now thought of TNG as canon wherever there was conflict between the two. He admitted it was revisionist thinking, but so be it.[4]— Paula Block, 2005
Additionally, David Gerrold, in an interview about Star Trek: The Animated Series, commented on Roddenberry's parsimony and how it originally affected "canon":
Arguments about "canon" are silly. I always felt that Star Trek Animated was part of Star Trek because Gene Roddenberry accepted the paycheck for it and put his name on the credits. And DC Fontana -- and all the other writers involved -- busted their butts to make it the best Star Trek they could. But this whole business of "canon" really originated with Gene's errand boy. Gene liked giving people titles instead of raises, so the errand boy got named "archivist" and apparently it went to his head. Gene handed him the responsibility of answering all fan questions, silly or otherwise, and he apparently let that go to his head.[5]
Another factor that contributes to blur the line between canon and non-canon is the fact that some writers like to include elements from popular non-canon works into canon episodes.[6] Such is the case, for instance, of several concepts that first appeared in the Animated Series' episode "Yesteryear", including The Forge and the city of ShiKahr, and which were later included in the Enterprise three-part story that started with "The Forge".[7] However, despite the fact that elements borrowed from the Animated Series are considered canon, the series itself remains decidedly non-canon.[8]
One final issue comes from text that appears on props such as computer displays, but is not legible during the episode, except in modern HDTV broadcasts. The transcript of the text can often be obtained through behind-the-scenes pictures and interviews. This leads to the question of whether material that is in the episodes but cannot be seen clearly should be considered canon. Although there is no answer valid for all this material. In many cases this material tends to be inside jokes inserted by the production staff[9], other kinds of information, such as the biographical information seen on a computer display in "In a Mirror, Darkly", has been clearly declared not to be "hard canon".[10]
[edit] Films
As of 2009, the first ten live action Star Trek films produced to that date are considered canon.[1] However, much like for TV series, this policy fails to note which version of the films is canon. This leaves unknown the canonicity of scenes missing from the theatrical version of a film but included in home releases or director's cuts. Such is the case, for example, of a scene revealing that the character of Peter Preston was the nephew of Scotty in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.[11]
Adding confusion to the issue is the fact that Roddenberry is quoted as saying he did not like the films, and "didn't much consider them canon".[4] There exists no definitive list of which films in particular Roddenberry disliked, or what elements in them he did not consider canon. For example, the reference book Star Trek Chronology states that Roddenberry considered elements of Star Trek V and Star Trek VI to be apocryphal, but it does not specify which particular elements in the films Roddenberry objected to.[12]
The canonicity of extra features found on home DVD releases, such as deleted scenes, has never been explicitly addressed.
[edit] Publications
[edit] Fiction novels
Many of the original novels published by Pocket Books are not considered part of the canon.[1] This was a guideline set early on by Gene Roddenberry, and repeated many times by people who worked with him.
And as long as Gene Roddenberry is involved in it, he is the final word on what is Star Trek. So, for us here – Ron Moore, Jeri Taylor, everybody who works on the show – Gene is the authority. And when he says that the books, and the games, and the comics and everything else, are not gospel, but are only additional Star Trek based on his Star Trek but not part of the actual Star Trek universe that he created... they're just, you know, kinda fun to keep you occupied between episodes and between movies, whatever... but he does not want that to be considered to be sources of information for writers, working on this show, he doesn't want it to be considered part of the canon by anybody working on any other projects.[3]— Richard Arnold, 1991
However, even this rule is not without its exception. Two Voyager novels written by Jeri Taylor (co-creator and then producer of Voyager), Mosaic and Pathways, were written early on in Voyager's run and detailed the background of the show's main characters.[1] These were meant to be canon, and to be used as references by the show's writers when fleshing out the characters. These two novels are sometimes named as exceptions to the "no book is canon" rule.[13] However, as some of the background information mentioned in those books was never referenced in an episode of Voyager, their status as canon is still open to debate.[1]
[edit] Novelizations
The novelizations of episodes and movies are not considered canon. This is a tradition that goes back to Gene Roddenberry himself. Roddenberry wrote a novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, which included many tangents and new material that were not part of the movie, such as revealing that the woman who dies in the transporter accident was Kirk's lover.[14] While this novel filled in many gaps left in the movie, Roddenberry is quoted as saying it should not be considered canon.[15]
[edit] Reference books
A special case is made for "non-fiction" reference books such as The Star Trek Encyclopedia, Star Trek Chronology, TNG Technical Manual and DS9 Technical Manual. Unlike the novels and novelizations, these reference manuals have never been explicitly named as non-canon, and the fact that they were officially sanctioned by Paramount and given to episode writers as guides serves to give them an aura of credibility. Roddenberry himself considered it part of the "background" of Star Trek.[16] Meanwhile, Michael Okuda and Rick Sternbach, two art and technical consultants since Star Trek: The Next Generation and the authors of several of these reference books, considered their work "pretty official".[17] However, they stop short of naming the books canon, leaving the debate open.
Star Trek writer and co-producer Ronald D. Moore dismisses such official material as "speculation", and says that the writing staff did not consider it canon.[18][19] However, Viacom, the parent company of Paramount, seems to believe differently. In a series of posts to the official Star Trek website's forums, Viacom Senior Director Harry Lang left no doubt that he considers the reference books as canon.[13][20]
[edit] Other publications
The Star Trek comic books and Star Trek magazines are not considered canon.[1][3]
[edit] Other material
Nothing that takes place in Star Trek games, the Star Trek: The Experience attraction, Star Trek fan productions or Trekdom is considered canon.[1][3]
[edit] Roddenberry-approved material
Based on the amount of creative control Roddenberry exerted over the first seasons of Star Trek, some people argue that only Roddenberry-approved material should be considered canon.[21] Such an approach would eliminate from canon anything Roddenberry didn't like, as well as everything made after his death, including six movies and three TV series.
However, Roddenberry himself pre-emptively rebuked such an attitude. He had hoped that Star Trek would go on after his death.[22] As Star Trek was constantly improved by each following generation, he expected people to look back upon its humble beginnings as just that, the simple beginnings of something much bigger and better.[23] Roddenberry clearly never intended Star Trek to be limited to his work, but to include all the hopefully superior work of future generations.
[edit] Klingon language
The Klingon language was first conceived by James Doohan for the movie Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and consisted only of a few words. Later, Marc Okrand proceeded to flesh out the sparse vocabulary into a real language, complete with grammar rules and phonology, and went so far as to publish The Klingon Dictionary and to create the Klingon Language Institute.[24] Okrand's Klingon language was used to write the Klingon dialogues heard in several Star Trek movies and episodes.[25] Despite these facts, however, Ronald D. Moore stated "Whether or not [Trek writers] use the language as spelled out in Marc's dictionary is up to the individual writer," and that he "find[s] the dictionary cumbersome and usually find[s] it easier to make [the language] up phonetically."[26]"
------------------------------------------
UPDATE ON SW CANON:
"In a December 6, 2006 post, Chee contradicted his original statements regarding the canonicity of the Holocron and how it applied to the Star Wars universe:
“The only relevant official continuities are the current versions of the films alone, and the combined current version of the films along with whatever else we’ve got in the Holocron. You’re never going to know what George’s view of the universe beyond the films at any given time because it is constantly evolving.”
n August 4, 2004, when asked if the G and C-levels formed separate and independent canon, Leland Chee responded by stating that both were part of a single canon:
“There is one overall continuity.”"
A couple of years later in 2006 he confirms that there is at least one more “continuity” the “film only” continuity maintained and followed by George Lucas himself, and the “films + EU” continuity that is used for licensed products.
The fact is that “films + EU” continuity that is used for licensed products is nothing but a marketing tool to sell stuff and make money, the true canon has only 6 films and novelsation to sell stuff from and as such is limited (after all how many millenium falcon models, ewok dolls or vader masks do you really need).
The EU however opens the market up to any race, shps, tools, games, book ect ect that they can shove into it and obviously they need to give it a psudo canon status or its not “official” merchandise beause not being “official” merchandise of one sort or another means no one will buy it.
-----------------------------------------------
So, both in Star Trek and Star Wars, only on-screen evidence (including on-screen dialogue) is considered canon. Nothing else. In Star Wars, novelizations and radio plays are considered canon only as long as they don't contradict higher canon.
So levels of canonity should go (as I see it):
1) Movies
2) Novelizations
3) Cartoons, like The Clone Wars, etc.
4) Radio dramas
5) Scripts
...and on my site.
nedjelja, 22. kolovoza 2010.
Turbolaser firepower
Imperial Star Destroyer turbolasers
Heavy turbolasers
On Mr. Anderson's site (st-v-sw.net) I found this interesting piece of txt from RotS novelization:
In the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, our introduction to the story comes with the following:
" The skies of Coruscant blaze with war.
The artificial daylight spread by the capital's orbital mirrors is sliced by intersecting flames of ion drives and punctuated by starburst explosions; contrails of debris raining into the atmosphere become tangled ribbons of cloud. The nightside sky is an infinite lattice of shining hairlines that interlock planetoids and track erratic spirals of glowing gnats. Beings watching from rooftops of Coruscant's endless cityscape can find it beautiful.
From the inside, it's different. The gnats are drive-glows of starfighters. The shining hairlines are light-scatter from turbolaser bolts powerful enough to vaporize a small town. The planetoids are capital ships."
Now, first thing we need is to obtain "small town" to blow up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town
If we go with US definition, "small town" might be around 500 to 2 000 people. To define area, being relatively lazy, I will use this list beacouse it already has defined values in square kilometers. By using that list, we can assume "small town" as being 10 to 40 square kilometers. Assuming circle, that gives us radius of 1.784 to 3.57 kilometers. Only small town we saw in Star Wars is Mos Eisley, which is closer to former size.
Using this calculator, we can deduce energy required to destroy such town in form of widespread destruction from air blast radius to be 0.015 to 0.12 megatons. However, that is absolutely tiny low-end estimate, and not very reasonable given what has been said in quote.
More reasonable estimate is by using fireball radius.
I will go with these values:
Fireball radius (minimum): 35 megatons
Fireball radius (airburst): 22 megatons
Fireball radius (ground-contact airburst): 10 megatons
Since we are talking about "vaporizing town", 10 megaton value for heavy turbolasers is reasonable, especially when we compare only "small town" seen in Star Wars canon - Mos Eisley - to US "small town" I used.
I decided to use this calculator to check effects. If we want to destroy New York in radius from 1700 to 3600 meters (1.0625 to 2.25 miles), it would give us 330 kilotons to 3.2 megatons.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Before scene in which TIE bombers drop bombs on Falcon's asteroid hideout (and after scene in which Luke proclaims to Yoda "I won't fail you"), we see Star Destroyer destroying asteroids with its medium turbolasers. Asteroids are instantly vaporized, but first we have to determine their size.
Here is Imperial Star Destroyer. It is 1600 meters long - at 276 mm that gives us 5.797 meters per milimeter size ratio (values are for original picture; picture seen is automatically resized by webpage). Trench is therefore 14.5 meters tall normal or 23 meters tall at widest part. Width of TL bolts is 1/4th of trench width, or 3.625 meters. Largest asteroid vaporized is around 3 to 4 times bolt width, or 11.5 to 14.5 meters in diameter. That gives us volume of that asteroid to be 796.32 to 1596 cubic meters.
Asteroids are most probably rock, but might be silicon too. Heat capacity of silicon is 711 J(kg x K) and density is 2.329 g/cm^3. However, I can't find other values so I will use Wong's calculator. Resulting figures are 5.8 to 22.8 kilotons.
CONCLUSION: Heavy turbolasers on ISD are 0.33 to 3.2 megatons , and medium turbolasers are 5.8 to 22.8 kilotons.
I would put likely value for heavy TL as 1.8 megatons, and medium TL as 4 kilotons.
Rate of fire of heavy TL is 1 shot every 10 seconds for all heavy TL combined, and medium TL 2-3 shots per second combined. So we have average of 44.6 kilotons to 388.4 kilotons per second for combined firepower of ISD.
NOTE: Some say that turbolasers firing on asteroids were light ones. That is completely wrong - not only too high power and too small rate of fire, but also fact that these turbolasers were most likely positioned on other places of hull.
On my site
Heavy turbolasers
On Mr. Anderson's site (st-v-sw.net) I found this interesting piece of txt from RotS novelization:
In the novelization of Revenge of the Sith, our introduction to the story comes with the following:
" The skies of Coruscant blaze with war.
The artificial daylight spread by the capital's orbital mirrors is sliced by intersecting flames of ion drives and punctuated by starburst explosions; contrails of debris raining into the atmosphere become tangled ribbons of cloud. The nightside sky is an infinite lattice of shining hairlines that interlock planetoids and track erratic spirals of glowing gnats. Beings watching from rooftops of Coruscant's endless cityscape can find it beautiful.
From the inside, it's different. The gnats are drive-glows of starfighters. The shining hairlines are light-scatter from turbolaser bolts powerful enough to vaporize a small town. The planetoids are capital ships."
Now, first thing we need is to obtain "small town" to blow up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town
If we go with US definition, "small town" might be around 500 to 2 000 people. To define area, being relatively lazy, I will use this list beacouse it already has defined values in square kilometers. By using that list, we can assume "small town" as being 10 to 40 square kilometers. Assuming circle, that gives us radius of 1.784 to 3.57 kilometers. Only small town we saw in Star Wars is Mos Eisley, which is closer to former size.
Using this calculator, we can deduce energy required to destroy such town in form of widespread destruction from air blast radius to be 0.015 to 0.12 megatons. However, that is absolutely tiny low-end estimate, and not very reasonable given what has been said in quote.
More reasonable estimate is by using fireball radius.
I will go with these values:
Fireball radius (minimum): 35 megatons
Fireball radius (airburst): 22 megatons
Fireball radius (ground-contact airburst): 10 megatons
Since we are talking about "vaporizing town", 10 megaton value for heavy turbolasers is reasonable, especially when we compare only "small town" seen in Star Wars canon - Mos Eisley - to US "small town" I used.
I decided to use this calculator to check effects. If we want to destroy New York in radius from 1700 to 3600 meters (1.0625 to 2.25 miles), it would give us 330 kilotons to 3.2 megatons.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Before scene in which TIE bombers drop bombs on Falcon's asteroid hideout (and after scene in which Luke proclaims to Yoda "I won't fail you"), we see Star Destroyer destroying asteroids with its medium turbolasers. Asteroids are instantly vaporized, but first we have to determine their size.
Here is Imperial Star Destroyer. It is 1600 meters long - at 276 mm that gives us 5.797 meters per milimeter size ratio (values are for original picture; picture seen is automatically resized by webpage). Trench is therefore 14.5 meters tall normal or 23 meters tall at widest part. Width of TL bolts is 1/4th of trench width, or 3.625 meters. Largest asteroid vaporized is around 3 to 4 times bolt width, or 11.5 to 14.5 meters in diameter. That gives us volume of that asteroid to be 796.32 to 1596 cubic meters.
Asteroids are most probably rock, but might be silicon too. Heat capacity of silicon is 711 J(kg x K) and density is 2.329 g/cm^3. However, I can't find other values so I will use Wong's calculator. Resulting figures are 5.8 to 22.8 kilotons.
CONCLUSION: Heavy turbolasers on ISD are 0.33 to 3.2 megatons , and medium turbolasers are 5.8 to 22.8 kilotons.
I would put likely value for heavy TL as 1.8 megatons, and medium TL as 4 kilotons.
Rate of fire of heavy TL is 1 shot every 10 seconds for all heavy TL combined, and medium TL 2-3 shots per second combined. So we have average of 44.6 kilotons to 388.4 kilotons per second for combined firepower of ISD.
NOTE: Some say that turbolasers firing on asteroids were light ones. That is completely wrong - not only too high power and too small rate of fire, but also fact that these turbolasers were most likely positioned on other places of hull.
On my site
Starship Combat Ranges
Star Trek
Ship-vs-ship
-Next Generation era
In The Next Generation episode "The Wounded" USS phoenix destroys Cardassian warship from distance of around 200 000 kilometers with display showing Phoenix' weapons range to be 225 000 km and weapons range of Cardassian warship little less than 270 000 km). Phoenix destroyed Cardassian warship with torpedoes. Later, it destroyed supply ship from range of about 170 000 km, presumably with phasers.
In "A Matter of Honor" Riker advises Klingon captain attempting to attack Enterprise-D to close to 40 000 kilometers before decloaking in order to shorten their response time (he needed BoP in transporter range for his own purposes).
In DS9 "A Call to Arms" we seem to have 10 km range for Dominion/Cardassian weapons, but that is not actually true - VFX Supervisor David Stipes (who should be fired if his work is always like that) added station in order not to confuse audience where fleet is actually going. So that example can be dismissed. Especially considering that in "The Search" we have >100 000 km weapons range for Dominion "bug".
In any case, given that short-range battles usually occur against enemies with similar fighting capabilities, it is unlikely that Federation or any other Trek power would not use it if it could help.
However, there are some reasons for shorter-range fights (in-universe reasons, not RL reason that it looks "pretty"). Shorter range also shortens enemy's response time, and makes it harder to evade beams. In "Sacrifice of Angels" and both battles of Chin'toka, we have one fleet trying to push throught other one.
Conclusion: Effective weapons range of Nebula class starship is 225 000 kilometers for torpedoes and 170 000 kilometers for phasers.
-TOS era
In TOS, long combat ranges are relatively standard when compared to TNG era. In episode "Changeling" we have probe firing on Enterprise from 90 000 km, which is "at end of their sensor range". Enterprise returns fire by using photon torpedoes, from same range. Probe is 1 meter high and 0.25 m wide (as seen after teleporting to Enterprise).
"The Ultimate Computer" shows weapons range of around 200 000 km (it also informs us that penalty for mass murder - or murder - is death - M5 attempted to committ suicide after learning that it caused death of 400 people).
Orbital bombardment
In "Skin of Evil" Enterprise-D destroys shuttlecraft lying on surface of planet from range of around 0.8 to 1 planetary diameter, or 10 to 13 thousand kilometers. Given that they were targeting small shuttlecraft, and that Nebula-class USS Phoenix demonstrated 200 000 km effective range against 400-meter long Galor-class warship, ranges of around 1 000 000 km for carpet-style planetary bombardment are possible.
Star Wars
Ship vs ship
In Return of the Jedi, we have engagement ranges of around 40 kilometers in beginning (200 km as high-end gross overestimation); later, Rebel fleet closes to "point-blank" range - Rebel cruisers basically enter into space between Imperial Star Destroyers, reducing engagement distance to few hundred, and, in some cases, few tens of meters.
Orbital bombardment
Hoth ion canon was able to hit Imperial Star Destroyer from distance which looked like 0.8 to 1 planetary diameter; assuming Hoth as Earth-sized planet (which is reasonable assumption, given that gravity on Hoth seemed to be normal), that gives us range of planetary defences versus 1.6 kilometer long capital ship as 10 to 13 thousand kilometers.
From that we can assume 4 to 6 thousand kilometer ranges for ship-vs-ship combat. (Speed of TL bolts seems to be few kilometers per second to few tens kilometers per second - that means that few hundred to few thousand km ranges are maximum against ISD-sized capital ships from SW).
UPDATE: In Revenge of Sith we have classical Napoleon-era naval tactics, with ships firing broadsides from point-blank range, as seen here:
Distance between Invisible Hand and Republic destroyer is no more than 300 meters (Venator class is 1137 meters long). There are 6 openings in hull for heavy turbolasers, which seem to use shells for something (power pack, some form of gass/fuel/plasma etc) that are ejected after shot.
That, however, is not point - point is that these guns have extremely limited arc of fire, 30 degrees on each side (assuming guns can change horizontal orientation; we saw no proof for that and, indeed, no visible mechanism that would indicate such ability. However, it seems that guns could elevate barrels vertically; possible elevation seems to be from +30 to -30 degrees.
For comparation, main guns of WW2-era Japanese Kongo class battlecruisers and Nagato class battleships had maximum elevation of +43° for main guns (negative elevation was not so important due to most battles being fought at long range - few night battles occured at short range before advent of shiboard radars and in such situations ships could find themselves in awkward position of not being able to lower their main guns low enough to actually target enemy ships. Same issue was with sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse - British gunners were unable to achieve low enough elevation (actually negative elevation was needed) to target Japanese planes).
Darkstar here says that guns cannot elevate barrel nor turn left or right. While he is right about guns being unable to target ships that were either left or right from direction barrel is facing, his argument about guns being unable to elevate barell is flawed... Gun does seem to have mechanism to elevate barell, but barell would have to be at zero elevation to be reloaded, similar to WW2 era guns, picture seen below.
However, shell storage mechanism is wierd; but again, it could be that gun had some system that only allowed one shell to fall into loading mechanism.
UPDATE: Speed of TL bolts might be 5-10k meters per second at most. Given manouverability and speed of capital ships, actual ranges are closer to 100-500 kilometers.
UPDATE 2: It is suggested on Wong's site that TL bolts have physical projectile at their core. If that is case, then green "bolt" might just be "tracer" or "marker" to allow gunner to determine if bolt actually hit its target. Speeds of modern artillery shells reach up to 1600 m/s as per this page; given that there is no air resistence, speed of bolts as seen in movies might be possible. However, that can't explain TESB asteroid vaporization scene.
UPDATE 3: I just remembered that in ANH (both novelization and movie) Wedge Antilles commented during Rebel briefing that "not even computer could hit it" (2 m wide exhaust that was discovered to be weakness). That seems to suggest even lower effective ranges than previously calculated (at least for torpedoes).
UPDATE 4:
RotJ novelization:
"ADMIRAL Ackbar stood on the bridge in stunned disbelief, looking out the observation window at the place where, a moment before, the Rebel Star Cruiser Liberty had just been engaged in a furious long-range battle. Now, there was nothing. Only empty space, powdered with a fine dust that sparkled in the light of more distant explosions. Ackbar stared in silence."
This could mean, combined with evidence from movie itself, that maximum effective range for capital-ship battle is less than 500 km.
UPDATE 2: It seems I was wrong - mechanism I thought was for elevating barrell is actually recoil mechanism.
Ship-vs-ship
-Next Generation era
In The Next Generation episode "The Wounded" USS phoenix destroys Cardassian warship from distance of around 200 000 kilometers with display showing Phoenix' weapons range to be 225 000 km and weapons range of Cardassian warship little less than 270 000 km). Phoenix destroyed Cardassian warship with torpedoes. Later, it destroyed supply ship from range of about 170 000 km, presumably with phasers.
In "A Matter of Honor" Riker advises Klingon captain attempting to attack Enterprise-D to close to 40 000 kilometers before decloaking in order to shorten their response time (he needed BoP in transporter range for his own purposes).
In DS9 "A Call to Arms" we seem to have 10 km range for Dominion/Cardassian weapons, but that is not actually true - VFX Supervisor David Stipes (who should be fired if his work is always like that) added station in order not to confuse audience where fleet is actually going. So that example can be dismissed. Especially considering that in "The Search" we have >100 000 km weapons range for Dominion "bug".
In any case, given that short-range battles usually occur against enemies with similar fighting capabilities, it is unlikely that Federation or any other Trek power would not use it if it could help.
However, there are some reasons for shorter-range fights (in-universe reasons, not RL reason that it looks "pretty"). Shorter range also shortens enemy's response time, and makes it harder to evade beams. In "Sacrifice of Angels" and both battles of Chin'toka, we have one fleet trying to push throught other one.
Conclusion: Effective weapons range of Nebula class starship is 225 000 kilometers for torpedoes and 170 000 kilometers for phasers.
-TOS era
In TOS, long combat ranges are relatively standard when compared to TNG era. In episode "Changeling" we have probe firing on Enterprise from 90 000 km, which is "at end of their sensor range". Enterprise returns fire by using photon torpedoes, from same range. Probe is 1 meter high and 0.25 m wide (as seen after teleporting to Enterprise).
"The Ultimate Computer" shows weapons range of around 200 000 km (it also informs us that penalty for mass murder - or murder - is death - M5 attempted to committ suicide after learning that it caused death of 400 people).
Orbital bombardment
In "Skin of Evil" Enterprise-D destroys shuttlecraft lying on surface of planet from range of around 0.8 to 1 planetary diameter, or 10 to 13 thousand kilometers. Given that they were targeting small shuttlecraft, and that Nebula-class USS Phoenix demonstrated 200 000 km effective range against 400-meter long Galor-class warship, ranges of around 1 000 000 km for carpet-style planetary bombardment are possible.
Star Wars
Ship vs ship
In Return of the Jedi, we have engagement ranges of around 40 kilometers in beginning (200 km as high-end gross overestimation); later, Rebel fleet closes to "point-blank" range - Rebel cruisers basically enter into space between Imperial Star Destroyers, reducing engagement distance to few hundred, and, in some cases, few tens of meters.
Orbital bombardment
Hoth ion canon was able to hit Imperial Star Destroyer from distance which looked like 0.8 to 1 planetary diameter; assuming Hoth as Earth-sized planet (which is reasonable assumption, given that gravity on Hoth seemed to be normal), that gives us range of planetary defences versus 1.6 kilometer long capital ship as 10 to 13 thousand kilometers.
From that we can assume 4 to 6 thousand kilometer ranges for ship-vs-ship combat. (Speed of TL bolts seems to be few kilometers per second to few tens kilometers per second - that means that few hundred to few thousand km ranges are maximum against ISD-sized capital ships from SW).
UPDATE: In Revenge of Sith we have classical Napoleon-era naval tactics, with ships firing broadsides from point-blank range, as seen here:
That, however, is not point - point is that these guns have extremely limited arc of fire, 30 degrees on each side (assuming guns can change horizontal orientation; we saw no proof for that and, indeed, no visible mechanism that would indicate such ability. However, it seems that guns could elevate barrels vertically; possible elevation seems to be from +30 to -30 degrees.
For comparation, main guns of WW2-era Japanese Kongo class battlecruisers and Nagato class battleships had maximum elevation of +43° for main guns (negative elevation was not so important due to most battles being fought at long range - few night battles occured at short range before advent of shiboard radars and in such situations ships could find themselves in awkward position of not being able to lower their main guns low enough to actually target enemy ships. Same issue was with sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse - British gunners were unable to achieve low enough elevation (actually negative elevation was needed) to target Japanese planes).
Darkstar here says that guns cannot elevate barrel nor turn left or right. While he is right about guns being unable to target ships that were either left or right from direction barrel is facing, his argument about guns being unable to elevate barell is flawed... Gun does seem to have mechanism to elevate barell, but barell would have to be at zero elevation to be reloaded, similar to WW2 era guns, picture seen below.
However, shell storage mechanism is wierd; but again, it could be that gun had some system that only allowed one shell to fall into loading mechanism.
UPDATE: Speed of TL bolts might be 5-10k meters per second at most. Given manouverability and speed of capital ships, actual ranges are closer to 100-500 kilometers.
UPDATE 2: It is suggested on Wong's site that TL bolts have physical projectile at their core. If that is case, then green "bolt" might just be "tracer" or "marker" to allow gunner to determine if bolt actually hit its target. Speeds of modern artillery shells reach up to 1600 m/s as per this page; given that there is no air resistence, speed of bolts as seen in movies might be possible. However, that can't explain TESB asteroid vaporization scene.
UPDATE 3: I just remembered that in ANH (both novelization and movie) Wedge Antilles commented during Rebel briefing that "not even computer could hit it" (2 m wide exhaust that was discovered to be weakness). That seems to suggest even lower effective ranges than previously calculated (at least for torpedoes).
UPDATE 4:
RotJ novelization:
"ADMIRAL Ackbar stood on the bridge in stunned disbelief, looking out the observation window at the place where, a moment before, the Rebel Star Cruiser Liberty had just been engaged in a furious long-range battle. Now, there was nothing. Only empty space, powdered with a fine dust that sparkled in the light of more distant explosions. Ackbar stared in silence."
This could mean, combined with evidence from movie itself, that maximum effective range for capital-ship battle is less than 500 km.
UPDATE 2: It seems I was wrong - mechanism I thought was for elevating barrell is actually recoil mechanism.
star wars ground combat (unfinished)
Ground combat
Vehicles
AT-AT walkers seem to have combat range of several kilometers, with their armor stated to be "too strong for blasters". Walkers seem to be 15-20 meters tall, probably to compensate for their line-of-view weapons, which tends to limit effective range of smaller vehicles on rough terrain. Shots from AT-AT's blaster vaporizes few cubic centimters to 1-3 cubic decimeters of snow per shot. That gives is 1 to 2 kilojoule weapons, with 2.5 kilojoules being most possible high-end estimate.
AT-ST walkers fire their blasters in bursts; individual shots barely crack trees and are weaker than AT-AT shots - my estimate is 0.5 to 1 kilojoules. Still, Chewie has no problem destroying other AT-ST's after he comandeers one; 5 shots in cabin are enought (so AT-ST armor can withstand 2.5 to 5 kJ; when one remembers that Federation phasers have output of 2.5 to 6.2 GJ per second, it is clear that even basic Federation infantry weapons are going to be stunningly effective against AT-ST walkers). Even if AT-AT walkers have 1000 times stronger armor, it will still be insufficient to stop even ordinary hand phasers - however, due to its longer range, phaser rifle will be more effective.
If we go with other possibility - assuming AT-ST armor is iron - then AT-ST shots arrive at 53 KJ.
Infantry combat
Blaster firepower
In RotJ, shot from hand blaster barely burns Leia's arm. However, in ANH, we see shots from Han's hand blaster tearing holes in concrete; holes might be around 9 centimeters in diameter and 4-9 cm deep. We do see larger explosion caused by Han's last shot, but it is not possible to estimate amount of material removed; however, it seems to be 3-5 times larger than most of remaining shots.
Density of concrete is 2400 kg/m^3; volume af material removed by ordinary shots is around 1526 - 3053 cubic centimeters; for last shot it might be 4578 to 15 265 cubic centimeters, which gives us removed mass of around 3.6624 to 7.3272 kilograms; last shot removing 10.9872 to 36.636 kilograms.
Concrete does not have melting point; when temperature is higher than 1000°C, concrete crumbles like sugar. Heat capacity of concrete is 0.880 J/(g·K).
So one blaster bolt might have energy of around 3.7 to 6.448 MJ. Given that it is stronger than seen AT-AT and AT-ST firepower, I might bump up firepower of these to 30 and 60 MJ per shot as wild guess.
Also, it is worth noting that blasters do have stun setting, as Vader instructed his crew to "set blasters on stun" when they were about to board Falcon at end of TESB.
Starship close quarters combat
In ANH we see stormtroopers boarding Rebel blockade runner. Accuracy is terrible on both sides, althoght that can be attributed to stress of CQC.
Close air support
"Anyone who has to fight, even with the most modern weapons, against an enemy in complete command of the air, fights like a savage against modern European troops, under the same handicaps and with the same chances of success. " - Erwin Rommel
If you watch Attack of the Clones, Battle of Geonosis part, you will notice that while Separatist Hailfire (sorry if I spelled wrong) droids had great success against Republic walkers, republic gunships quickly destroyed them, demonstrating importance of air superiority.
In TESB we see TIE bombers for first time, dropping bombs on surface of asteroid. Crater at which they are dropping bombs is 15-20 times Falcon's length in diameter. Falcon's length is 2 times its width, or 45 meters. Therefore, crater is 675 to 900 meters in diameter. Explosions are around 1/5th to 1/10th of crater's diameter - that gives us yield of 0.04 to 0.4 kilotons for TIE Bomber bombs.
Vehicles
AT-AT walkers seem to have combat range of several kilometers, with their armor stated to be "too strong for blasters". Walkers seem to be 15-20 meters tall, probably to compensate for their line-of-view weapons, which tends to limit effective range of smaller vehicles on rough terrain. Shots from AT-AT's blaster vaporizes few cubic centimters to 1-3 cubic decimeters of snow per shot. That gives is 1 to 2 kilojoule weapons, with 2.5 kilojoules being most possible high-end estimate.
AT-ST walkers fire their blasters in bursts; individual shots barely crack trees and are weaker than AT-AT shots - my estimate is 0.5 to 1 kilojoules. Still, Chewie has no problem destroying other AT-ST's after he comandeers one; 5 shots in cabin are enought (so AT-ST armor can withstand 2.5 to 5 kJ; when one remembers that Federation phasers have output of 2.5 to 6.2 GJ per second, it is clear that even basic Federation infantry weapons are going to be stunningly effective against AT-ST walkers). Even if AT-AT walkers have 1000 times stronger armor, it will still be insufficient to stop even ordinary hand phasers - however, due to its longer range, phaser rifle will be more effective.
If we go with other possibility - assuming AT-ST armor is iron - then AT-ST shots arrive at 53 KJ.
Infantry combat
Blaster firepower
In RotJ, shot from hand blaster barely burns Leia's arm. However, in ANH, we see shots from Han's hand blaster tearing holes in concrete; holes might be around 9 centimeters in diameter and 4-9 cm deep. We do see larger explosion caused by Han's last shot, but it is not possible to estimate amount of material removed; however, it seems to be 3-5 times larger than most of remaining shots.
Density of concrete is 2400 kg/m^3; volume af material removed by ordinary shots is around 1526 - 3053 cubic centimeters; for last shot it might be 4578 to 15 265 cubic centimeters, which gives us removed mass of around 3.6624 to 7.3272 kilograms; last shot removing 10.9872 to 36.636 kilograms.
Concrete does not have melting point; when temperature is higher than 1000°C, concrete crumbles like sugar. Heat capacity of concrete is 0.880 J/(g·K).
So one blaster bolt might have energy of around 3.7 to 6.448 MJ. Given that it is stronger than seen AT-AT and AT-ST firepower, I might bump up firepower of these to 30 and 60 MJ per shot as wild guess.
Also, it is worth noting that blasters do have stun setting, as Vader instructed his crew to "set blasters on stun" when they were about to board Falcon at end of TESB.
Starship close quarters combat
In ANH we see stormtroopers boarding Rebel blockade runner. Accuracy is terrible on both sides, althoght that can be attributed to stress of CQC.
Close air support
"Anyone who has to fight, even with the most modern weapons, against an enemy in complete command of the air, fights like a savage against modern European troops, under the same handicaps and with the same chances of success. " - Erwin Rommel
If you watch Attack of the Clones, Battle of Geonosis part, you will notice that while Separatist Hailfire (sorry if I spelled wrong) droids had great success against Republic walkers, republic gunships quickly destroyed them, demonstrating importance of air superiority.
In TESB we see TIE bombers for first time, dropping bombs on surface of asteroid. Crater at which they are dropping bombs is 15-20 times Falcon's length in diameter. Falcon's length is 2 times its width, or 45 meters. Therefore, crater is 675 to 900 meters in diameter. Explosions are around 1/5th to 1/10th of crater's diameter - that gives us yield of 0.04 to 0.4 kilotons for TIE Bomber bombs.
star trek ground combat (unfinished)
Ground combat
Infantry Equipment
Starfleet uses phaser rifles and hand phasers as primary firearms. Tricoders are used as personal sensors.
During DS9, we see more of Federation infantry equipment, like smoke grenades (seen here at 7:05 to 7:42), armor tunic (DS9 "Nor the Battle to the Strong"), and we hear about personal forcefields (althought we only see makeshift forcefield in "A Fistful of Data"), photon grenades (heard about in TNG "Legacy" and DS9 "Homefront").
Some kind of armor tunic was also used by 22nd century MACOs, as seen here.
We also see spatial charges in VOY: "Dark Frontier".
Starship close quarters combat
During TNG, ship security mainly used type-2 phasers; after Dominion War (in FC and Nemesis) we saw Security personell using Type-3 phasers, or phaser rifles, which were ergonomically better than previous generation of rifles, seen during Dominion War (which actually seemed to be short-range carbine). Both Type-3 designs had rapid-fire ability, similar to USS Defiant's pulse phased cannons. Security force on starship seems to be relatively small to moderate, maybe up to 100 personnell.
(unfinished)
Close air support
"Anyone who has to fight, even with the most modern weapons, against an enemy in complete command of the air, fights like a savage against modern European troops, under the same handicaps and with the same chances of success. " - Erwin Rommel
If you watch Attack of the Clones, Battle of Geonosis part, you will notice that while Separatist Hailfire (sorry if I spelled wrong) droids had great success against Republic walkers, republic gunships quickly destroyed them, demonstrating importance of air superiority.
While Federation des not seem to posses dedicated atmospheric craft (with exception of "hoppers", which seem to be some kind of lightly-armored transport craft), Federation Attack fighters might be very effective in close support role, due to their heavy armament and high precision.
(unfinished)
Explosives
In "A time to stand" 90 isotons of rich ultrilitium is said to be able to "take care of storage facility and everything else within 800 kilometers). Explosion completely shattered asteroid, which had volume of around 10 000 000 cubic meters. That gives us yield of 10 kilotons; given that explosive was near one side of asteroid, actual yield of explosion might be around 90 kilotons.
(unfinished)
Troop movement (interstellar)
In Waltz, we hear about Federation troop convoy, carrying over 30 000 troops, that required escort after they exited Badlands, since "without Defiant they were helpless." That seems to imply specialized transport ships.
(unfinished)
Capital ship support
In TNG episode "Arsenal of Freedom" we have away team in possibly hostile environment (which is later confirmed to be hostile) maintaining all-time communications link with starship in orbit.
(unfinished)
Infantry Equipment
Starfleet uses phaser rifles and hand phasers as primary firearms. Tricoders are used as personal sensors.
During DS9, we see more of Federation infantry equipment, like smoke grenades (seen here at 7:05 to 7:42), armor tunic (DS9 "Nor the Battle to the Strong"), and we hear about personal forcefields (althought we only see makeshift forcefield in "A Fistful of Data"), photon grenades (heard about in TNG "Legacy" and DS9 "Homefront").
Some kind of armor tunic was also used by 22nd century MACOs, as seen here.
We also see spatial charges in VOY: "Dark Frontier".
Starship close quarters combat
During TNG, ship security mainly used type-2 phasers; after Dominion War (in FC and Nemesis) we saw Security personell using Type-3 phasers, or phaser rifles, which were ergonomically better than previous generation of rifles, seen during Dominion War (which actually seemed to be short-range carbine). Both Type-3 designs had rapid-fire ability, similar to USS Defiant's pulse phased cannons. Security force on starship seems to be relatively small to moderate, maybe up to 100 personnell.
(unfinished)
Close air support
"Anyone who has to fight, even with the most modern weapons, against an enemy in complete command of the air, fights like a savage against modern European troops, under the same handicaps and with the same chances of success. " - Erwin Rommel
If you watch Attack of the Clones, Battle of Geonosis part, you will notice that while Separatist Hailfire (sorry if I spelled wrong) droids had great success against Republic walkers, republic gunships quickly destroyed them, demonstrating importance of air superiority.
While Federation des not seem to posses dedicated atmospheric craft (with exception of "hoppers", which seem to be some kind of lightly-armored transport craft), Federation Attack fighters might be very effective in close support role, due to their heavy armament and high precision.
(unfinished)
Explosives
In "A time to stand" 90 isotons of rich ultrilitium is said to be able to "take care of storage facility and everything else within 800 kilometers). Explosion completely shattered asteroid, which had volume of around 10 000 000 cubic meters. That gives us yield of 10 kilotons; given that explosive was near one side of asteroid, actual yield of explosion might be around 90 kilotons.
(unfinished)
Troop movement (interstellar)
In Waltz, we hear about Federation troop convoy, carrying over 30 000 troops, that required escort after they exited Badlands, since "without Defiant they were helpless." That seems to imply specialized transport ships.
(unfinished)
Capital ship support
In TNG episode "Arsenal of Freedom" we have away team in possibly hostile environment (which is later confirmed to be hostile) maintaining all-time communications link with starship in orbit.
(unfinished)
Planet destruction
Star Trek
Xindi superweapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-q0hjSnbUA
As seen here, Xindi superweapon fired beam which penetrated planet's crust, reached its core and blew up planet from inside. Basically "Enterprise" version of Death Star - beam destroys planet despite not having DET power to do so.
General Order 24
General Order 24: An order to destroy all life on an entire planet. This order has been given by Captain Garth (Antos IV) and Captain Kirk (Eminiar VII). On neither occasion was the order actually fulfilled. (TOS: “A Taste of Armageddon”, “Whom Gods Destroy”)
Founder's sun-crushing bomb
Founder posing as Deep Space 9's Dr. Bashir attempted to destroy the sun using a bomb composed of trilithium, tekasite and protomatter. (DS9: "By Inferno's Light"). He was prevented from doing so by Defiant; it should be noted that bomb was relatively small, smaller than full-sized photon torpedoes used by capital ships.
Star Wars
Canon
Death Stars
Two battlestashions with ability to destroy planet. Effects of planetary destruction do not correspond to DET weapon, but rather to some sort of hyperspace-based or other technobabble weapon - that wiev is supported by ANH novelization.
Expanded Universe
Base Delta Zero
Star Wars version of General Order 24. Heavily inconsistent - in some cases turbolaser bolts merely 'put large patches of forrest on fire' while in others entire surface of planet was 'evenly cratered' and looked like surface of Moon after attack by single ISD. Given that turbolaser's firepower is in megatons, order is actually realistic.
HERE is a quote about a BDZ:-
"“Sir, what about bombardment? Is there a stage for that?”
“Blasting a planet from orbit is easy — you don’t need me to tell you how to do that. Limited orbital strikes would occur during the invasion stage. Just hope you are never given a Base Delta Zero order, lieutenant. Ah, yes, another question?”
“Sir, what’s the Base Delta Zero order?”
“Base Delta Zero is the Imperial code order to destroy all population centres and resources, including industry, natural resources and cities. All other Imperial codes are subject to change, as you well know, but this code is always the same to prevent any confusion when the order is given. Base Delta Zero is rarely issued. ….”
– “A World to Conquer” "
Sun Crusher
Small starship with special torpedoes used to destroy stars. Possibly influenced by Founder's sun-crushing bomb.
Xindi superweapon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-q0hjSnbUA
As seen here, Xindi superweapon fired beam which penetrated planet's crust, reached its core and blew up planet from inside. Basically "Enterprise" version of Death Star - beam destroys planet despite not having DET power to do so.
General Order 24
General Order 24: An order to destroy all life on an entire planet. This order has been given by Captain Garth (Antos IV) and Captain Kirk (Eminiar VII). On neither occasion was the order actually fulfilled. (TOS: “A Taste of Armageddon”, “Whom Gods Destroy”)
Founder's sun-crushing bomb
Founder posing as Deep Space 9's Dr. Bashir attempted to destroy the sun using a bomb composed of trilithium, tekasite and protomatter. (DS9: "By Inferno's Light"). He was prevented from doing so by Defiant; it should be noted that bomb was relatively small, smaller than full-sized photon torpedoes used by capital ships.
Star Wars
Canon
Death Stars
Two battlestashions with ability to destroy planet. Effects of planetary destruction do not correspond to DET weapon, but rather to some sort of hyperspace-based or other technobabble weapon - that wiev is supported by ANH novelization.
Expanded Universe
Base Delta Zero
Star Wars version of General Order 24. Heavily inconsistent - in some cases turbolaser bolts merely 'put large patches of forrest on fire' while in others entire surface of planet was 'evenly cratered' and looked like surface of Moon after attack by single ISD. Given that turbolaser's firepower is in megatons, order is actually realistic.
HERE is a quote about a BDZ:-
"“Sir, what about bombardment? Is there a stage for that?”
“Blasting a planet from orbit is easy — you don’t need me to tell you how to do that. Limited orbital strikes would occur during the invasion stage. Just hope you are never given a Base Delta Zero order, lieutenant. Ah, yes, another question?”
“Sir, what’s the Base Delta Zero order?”
“Base Delta Zero is the Imperial code order to destroy all population centres and resources, including industry, natural resources and cities. All other Imperial codes are subject to change, as you well know, but this code is always the same to prevent any confusion when the order is given. Base Delta Zero is rarely issued. ….”
– “A World to Conquer” "
Sun Crusher
Small starship with special torpedoes used to destroy stars. Possibly influenced by Founder's sun-crushing bomb.
Pretplati se na:
Postovi (Atom)