MY WEB SITE FINISHED

Well, site is finished. You can check it out here.

OZNAKE:
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Images

In end, torpedo comes out as 200 megatons.

 

SW galaxy size

SW galaxy is described as being "modest" sized galaxy.

-----ANH novel, ch. 6, page 87


"The tridimensional solid screen filled one wall of the vast chamber from floor to ceiling. It showed a million star systems. A tiny portion of the galaxy, but an impressive display nonetheless when exhibited in such a fashion."

Tarkin's speech to Leia from the ANH novel, ch. 7, page 116 :

"This station is the final link in the new-forged Imperial chain which will bind the million systems of the galactic Empire together once and for all."

After Alderaan's destruction, Vader checks the display again. From Chapter 8, page 129:

"Vader stared at the motley array of stars displayed on the conference-room map while Tarkin and Admiral Motti conferred nearby. Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful destructive machine ever constructed had seemingly had no influence at all on that map, which in itself represented only a tiny fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy.

It would take a microbreakdown of a portion of this map to reveal a slight reduction in spatial mass, caused by the disappearance of Alderaan. Alderaan, with its many cities, farms, factories, and towns -- and traitors, Vader reminded himself.

Despite his advances and intricate technological methods of annihilation, the actions of mankind remained unnoticeable to an uncaring, unimaginably vast universe." ----------

It is "modest-sized" (larger than small, but smaller than average) and we see from movie that it is spiral galaxy. However, it is NOT described as "modest-sized spiral galaxy".

Typical galaxies range from dwarfs with 10e7 stars, to giants with 10e14 stars. Our galaxy, with 2x10e11 to 4x10e11 stars is considered "large" galaxy. Its approx. volume is 7.85 x 10e12 cubic light years. It is 100 000 ly in diameter, with disk thickness from 2300 to 2600 ly.

So I would assign galaxies this classification:
giant - 10e12 to 10e14 stars
large - 10e11 to 10e12
medium - 10e10 to 10e11
modest - 10e9
small - 10e8
dwarf - 10e7

So Star Wars galaxy should have 10e9 stars, and density of 26 stars per 100 cubic light years, presuming it is similar to Milky Way. With that, we arrive at volume of 260 000 000 cubic light years. So it is only 3.2% of size of our galaxy in all directions - diameter should be 3200 and thickness 32 light years.

However, minimum diameter for spiral galaxy is 10 000 light years, so in end we have 10 000 ly for diameter, and 100 ly thickness. So entire Empire is 6% of Federation's size.

However, there is one interesting quote:

"BAIL ORGANA: It could be a trap.
OBI-WAN: No, I don't think so. The Chancellor will not be able to control the thousands of star systems without keeping the Senate intact."

Which means that Old Republic (and presumably Empire) had "thousands" of inhabited star systems, anywhere from 2 to 19 000. That implies much higher density than Federation has. If we take each world on average having 2 to 5 billion residents (given size of Coruscant, and fact that most Republic and Imperial worlds seemed to be lightly populated, with exception of Coruscant and Alderaan) it could give us 4 to 95 trillion residents, with higher values being more reasonable, if due to size of Coruscant itself.


You can also check corresponding page on my site.

Transporter

Transporter is primary Starfleets way for quickly transporting equipment and personell from and to starships. There are 2 types - personell and cargo transporters.


Transporter is able to transport matter from one place to another, and can even transport energy/particle beam of hand phaser, as seen in TNG episode "Datalore".

There are many things that can prevent successful transport, like shields (unless shield frequency is known). However, in "Dark frontier" Voyager apparently succeded in bypassing Borg shields and transporting photon torpedo onboard. Subsequent explosion destroyed vessel due to torpedo being near power matrix - original plan was only to disable it and salvage whatever equipment they were able to find. (unfinished)

Personnell transporter

(unfinished)

Cargo transporter

(unfinished)

Holodeck

In episode "The Big Goodbye" we are informed that holodecs, are "highly useful for crew training" and "highly enjoyable when used for recreation". However, there are also several other things worth noting - Picard is "not dressed properly" and spot from lipstick holodeck character gave him remained after he exited holodeck, which seems to suggest that, while most of it is illusion created by forcefields and holograms, at least some items are replicated (it is reinforced by "Angel One" when Picard, passing near holodeck, gets hit by snowball throught open doors). Since it is unlikely starship will carry huge amounts of lipstick to be used in replicators as needed, it seems to suggest that at least some level of manipulation on mollecular level can be achieved, if not at atomic/subatomic level.

Death Star II

Before being banned on SDN I have recieved lot of complaints why Federation should not be able to destroy DSII. Microconduits... which we never saw used by Empire. It was also argued that conduit throught which Rebels flew inside was to be removed after construction was finished... which is, to say at least, ridiculous, as seen from following screenshot.

Folks at SDN argue that it was impossible for Rebels to destroy Death Star II after it was completed and that it was main reason why they attacked it. Wrong. Main reason for attack was fact that Emperor was going to be there. Secondary reason was promptly displayed when DSII destroyed cruiser Liberty. Superlaser of DSI was unable to target capital ships.

Also, much simpler solution would be to just put chimney caps. Constructing thousands or millions of micro-exhaust ports with each being over 90 kilometers long (due to zig-zag structure of vents) would be engineering and logistical nightmare, not to mention that construction would be delayed enough to make canon timeframe impossible.

Dreadnought

Dreadnought is nickname Maquis gave to former Cardassian missile. It is self-contained tactical missile. It carries warhead that contains 1000 kg of matter and 1000 kg of antimatter giving it 43-gigaton yield; it is also adaptible, evasive and armed with its own defensive weaponry - in other words, unstoppable. So, warhead itself was big deal, but its other characteristics were what made it such big deal.

Later in episode, we get a look at several other characteristics - it was able to scan and adapt to Starfleet weapons in part of second, rendering them almost completely ineffective.

On meaning of isoton

Well, here we are. Isoton - probably wierdest and most debatable unit of measurment in Star Trek. I have two theories about its meaning - mass of reactants or equivalent of yield produced by same amount of ultrilitium.

My st-vs-sw website (in development)

I started my work on st-vs-sw website but I don't know when, or if, I will upload it.

UPDATES AND NEWS:

11. 11. 2010: Finished photon torpedo page. Updates in future possible, but unlikely.

26. 11. 2010: Just made some measurements for "Rise" asteroid.

3. 12. 2010: Updated "Photon torpedo" page. (I often work on several pages simultaneously, so several pages might often be finished in rapid succession, althought average page takes at least week to finish, often much more, and that not counting updates).

5. 12. 2010: Finished "Phasers" (shipboard) page and updated "Photon torpedo" page.

6. 12. 2010: Finished Star Trek "Mortars" page.

7. 12. 2010: Changed design of pages into something more visually acceptable.

8. 12. 2010: Finished "Turbolasers" page

11. 12. 2010: Finished Star Trek "Sensors" (ground) page and Star Wars "Shields", "Active planetary defences" and "Passive planetary defences" pages, with all pages being micro-pages or bordering on that size. I must say that I expected ISD shields to be a bit more powerful, but who am I to argue against math?

12. 12. 2010: Finished Star Trek "Warp drive", "Active planetary defences" and "Passive planetary defences" pages

13. 12. 2010: Finished Star Trek "Hand phasers" and "Phaser rifles" pages, latter of which with extreme usage of materials from this blog.

14. 12. 2010: Finished Star Trek "Grenades" page

15. 12. 2010: Finished Star Trek "Air Support", "Defensive Tech" and "Galaxy class starship warp core" pages

16. 12. 2010: Added "Fuel" section to Galaxy class warp core page, with lot of interesting speculation

17. 12. 2010: Finished Star Trek "Deflector shields", "Regenerative shields" and "Ablative armor" pages

18. 12. 2010: Finished Star Wars "Galactic Empire air support" and "Death Star scaling" pages and Star Trek "Size of Starfleet" page

19. 12. 2010: Finished Star Trek "Impulse drive", "Torpedoes - other" and "Starship sensors" pages. "Materials" page might be considered finished, but I would appreciate more data

20. 12. 2010: Finished "Republic armor", "Imperial armor", "Blasters", "Republic air support", "Blaster rifles" and "Shipboard sensors" pages

21. 12. 2010: Finished "Imperial fleet size", "Imperial sensors - ground" and "Imperial defensive tech" (ground) pages.

22. 12. 2010: Finished Star Wars "Power production" page

23. 12. 2010: Finished Star Wars "Hyperdrive" and "Materials" pages

TESB bridge destruction scene

Here we have asteroid with width of 44 meters and height of 66 meters impacting ISD's bridge at 500 m/s (values estimations are eyeballed but I don't think real values are off by too large margin).

Volume of asteroid should be 100 355 m^3 or 1.0355x10e11 cm^3; density should range between 2.2 and 7.7 grams per cubic centimeter. So mass is between 2.2x10e11 and 7.73x10e11 grams or 2.2x10e8 and 7.73x10e8 kilograms, which gives us value of 2.75x10e13 and 9.66x10e13 J (27.5 and 96.6 TJ). That is 6.57 and 23 kilotons. Bridge is completely obliterated, as seen in above screenshots.

EDIT: I would like to thank Darkstar since I used first two screenshots from his page (I have movie on my computer but I don't have any program to capture screenshots - best thing I can do is "PrtScr" and then paste it in Photoshop. I did it with "Generations".

Energy requirements for Base Delta Zero and General Order 24

General Order 24

"This is the commander of the U.S.S. Enterprise. All cities and installations on Eminiar 7 have been located, identified, and fed into our fire control system. In 1 hour and 45 minutes, the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed. You have that long to surrender your hostages."

Combined area of largest metropolises on Earth is 134 141 km^2. E-D has 250 photon torpedoes, and due to only taking largest cities as norm, I will ignore phasers. That gives 357 square kilometers per torpedo, or 250 circles with radius of 13 kilometers.
Area of urban areas on Earth is 1.5% of land mass area or 2 234 100 square kilometers - or 8 936 km^2 per torpedo - which is area of circle with radius of 53.3 kilometers.

With Wong's calculator, first value gives us 120 megatons and the second 8.1 gigatons per torpedo - both are low end values, but are balanced out by not taking phasers into account. However, first value takes only few largest metropolises on Earth, and is low-end value. Considering that quote is from 23rd century, and that Enterprise-D probably carries much larger number of torpedoes than Constitution class (or much more powerful torpedoes) due to Galaxy class being 8 times larger in volume, second value might also be conservative - however, it is balanced out by fact that Eminiar 7 might have smaller urban population than modern-day Earth. Following screenshot, however, suggests over 11 000 000 square kilometers of urban area - or 250 circles each with radius of 118 kilometers, or 90 gigatons per torpedo, assuming all damage is done by torpedoes - I doubt more than 50-75% of damage will be done that way.

However, this quote is interesting.

Kirk: "We make the real thing, Councelor. I could destroy this planet."

It could mean that Enterprise can  destroy every inhabited area on planet.

CONCLUSION: 23rd century photon torpedoes are between 8 and 50 gigatons in yield.

UPDATE: GO24 firepower is confirmed by episode "Whom gods Destroy". Outpost is covered with planetary shield and it is stated that Big E "can blast throught that shield but only at cost of destroying Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock and every other living thing on Elba 2." This seems to suggest that planet would be totally devastated even by collateral damage of blowing throught planetary shield, which might bump up firepower from GO24 as much as OOM.

Sulu: "We can't beam anyone down sir. Forcefield on planet is in full operation and all forms of transport into asylum dome are blocked."

Scotty: "We could blast our way throught that field but only at risk of destroying captain, mr Spock and every other living thing at Elba 2."

McCoy: "How could we be powerful enough to destroy a planet and still be so helpless."

Also, in DS9 episode "Broken Link" Garak states that "we have firepower on this ship to turn that planet into smoking cinder". He might have been tailor, but he was Obsidian Order operative and Worf does not contradict him.

Dialogue here:

WORF: Garak. Just as I thought.
GARAK: Don't tell me. I overlooked one of the security monitors.
WORF: You were trying to override the launch controls for the quantum torpedoes.
GARAK: I was hoping to gain control of the phasers as well. I just hadn't got around to it yet. Don't you see? We have an opportunity here. A chance to end the Dominion threat once and for all. We have enough firepower on this ship to turn that planet into a smoking cinder. Personally, I think that would be a very good thing.
WORF: And what about Odo, and Captain Sisko and Doctor Bashir?
GARAK: They'll die. And once the Jem'Hadar ships realise what we're doing, so will we. But what are our lives compared to saving the entire Alpha Quadrant?
WORF: We are not here to wage war.
GARAK: I'm not talking about war. What I'm proposing is wiping out every Founder on that planet. Obliterating the Great Link. Come now, Mister Worf, you're a Klingon. Don't tell me you'd object to a little genocide in the name of self-defence?
WORF: I am a warrior, not a murderer.
GARAK: What you are is a great disappointment.
(They fight. Worf finally gets the upper hand.)
WORF: You fight well for a tailor.

Base Delta Zero

"Base Delta Zero is the Imperial code order to destroy all population centres and resources, including industry, natural resources and cities."

I will use that quote to calculate BDZ energy requirements. NOTE: BASE DELTA ZERO IS LOW CANON AND AS SUCH IS OVERRIDDEN BY G CANON AND CALCULATIONS DERIVED FROM G CANON, ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING AMOUNT OF SPECULATIONS.

Timeframe: Base Delta Zero has been said to be "matter of hours". This means it takes more than one hour, but less than full day. Probably less than 6 hours, since six hours is "half day work".

We don't know how many ships are involved in this, but we can take some guesses:

"System bombards are used when the Empire would rather completely destroy a world rather than see it fall into Rebel hands."

"System bombard contains an average of 100 ships divided between three bombard squadrons and a light squadron. If an admiral feels that force superiority has done less than a thorough job of removing hostile craft from the system, a system bombard squadron will be augmented with ships from the light squadron."

As per the Sourcebook, the 100 ship fleet may include a few ISDs.

Task Force 58 at one point had 9 aircraft carriers, 7 fast battleships, 6 heavy cruisers, 4 light cruisers and 28 destroyers. Given that ISD's are Imperial battleships/carriers, I will take that "few" means anywhere from 12 to 29 Star Destroyers.

As a wild guess, I will assume 5 000 000 square kilometers destroyed. I still need to obtain ROF of Imperial turbolasers.

From Tantive IV pursuit scene, light turbolasers seem to have ROF of 3 shots per second. Medium ones seem to be able to fire 1 shot every 3 seconds. There seem to be 8-10 medium TL emplacements, so we have 2-3 shots per second. Heavy TL might be able to fire 1 shot every 10 seconds.

EU gives 72 heavy turbolasers and 19 medium turbolasers - so we have 7.2 heavy and 6.3 medium bolts per second.

I will give 3 hours as timeframe for BDZ (wildly generous, but there we go). In that timeframe we can count 25 920 heavy and 22 600 medium bolts. I will take heavy turbolasers as being 100 times stronger than medium ones - so we have 26 146 equivalent heavy TL bolts. Each would have to destroy area of 191 square kilometers, or equivalent of circle with radius of 7.8 kilometers.

I will use Wong's calculator, which gives us 24 megatons for air-blast radius with total fatalities, and 1.4 gigatons for minimum fireball radius.

Medium TL bolts therefore should be 240 kilotons to 14 megatons per shot.

CONCLUSION: Heavy turbolasers as based on BDZ are 24 megatons to 1.4 gigatons, and medium ones are 240 kilotons to 14 megatons.

EU Sources contradicting EII ICS (from SFJ)

Displayed firepower too low:




X-Wing: Krytos Trap

X-Wing: The Bacta War

X-Wing: Isard's Revenge

X-Wing: Solo Command

Showdown at Centerpoint

Darksaber

Star Wars Rebellion #10

Heir to the Empire comic book

Vector Prime

Displayed FTL speeds too low:



Tyrant's Test

Heir to the Empire

Displayed STL speeds too low:



Vector Prime

Contradicts fighter/capital ship firepower relationship:



X-Wing: Isard's Revenge

X-Wing: The Bacta War

The Hutt Gambit

Dark Force Rising

Legacy of the Force: Betrayal

Implicitly places capital ship firepower too low via comparison with targets/superweapons



Tyrant's Test

Vector Prime

Dark Empire Sourcebook

New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Weapons

Death Star

Places a fusion/fission generator as the power source for a ship volumetrically competitive in warfare:



The Truce at Bakura

Star Wars Sourcebook

Star Wars Roleplaying Game: Saga Edition

Weapons range:



X-Wing: Isard's Revenge

X-Wing: The Bacta War

X-Wing: The Krytos Trap

X-Wing: Solo Command

Tyrant's Test

Misc. other contradictions:



Shields too weak vs sun - "Heir to the Empire"

Cables used to transmit power - "Vision of the Future"

Implicit contradiction of army sizes via the number of clones - "Guide to the Grand Army of the Republic," Republic Commando books, Odds

Fuel consumption mismatch - SWRPG.

NJO: Star by Star - Vong cruiser blown up by 1,000 kg baradium warhead.

ICS fallacies

200 gigaton heavy turbolasers on Republic transport ship - nonexistent.





Base Delta Zero - just take look at following quotes:

"The First Sun is a repulsorlift infantry regiment designed primarily to run search-and-destroy missions, which he troops of the unit jocularly refer to as SLAMs (Search, Locate, Annihilate mission). Indeed, the regiment often undertakes missions with the same objective as the "Base Delta Zero" command: the elimination of all assets of production, including factories, land, mines, fisheries, droids, and sapient beings (particularly any witnesses that may have seen atrocities being commited)."--Galaxy Guide 9: Fragments from the Rim

" "Sir, what about bombardment? Is there a stage for that?"

"Blasting a planet from orbit is easy -- you don't need me to tell you how to do that. Limited orbital strikes would occur during the invasion stage. Just hope you are never given a Base Delta Zero order, lieutenant. Ah, yes, another question?"

"Sir, what's the Base Delta Zero order?"

"Base Delta Zero is the Imperial code order to destroy all population centres and resources, including industry, natural resources and cities. All other Imperial codes are subject to change, as you well know, but this code is always the same to prevent any confusion when the order is given. Base Delta Zero is rarely issued. ...."

-- "A World to Conquer" "

Star Trek vs Star Wars - nature of technology

Star Wars

Star Wars technology seems to be based on extensive use of EM technology - repulsors at least are EM based, which is based on their performance. Also, ISD was forced to shoot asteroids to keep them out of way.

(unfinished)

Star Trek

Star Trek technology is particle-based, including extensive use of gravitons and gravitational technology, plus manipulation of space-time continuum (warp drive; SW hyperdrive probably does similar thing). Shields are at least partially graviton-based.

(unfinished)

"Star Trek canon database" analysis

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Database/Query-ST.php?Series=TNG&Category=Naval+Tactics&EpName=&Keywords=&Quotes=&Analysis=&Submit=Submit


"Naval Tactics: the great Captain Picard abandoned his ship and left it drifting through space, still intact! This is absolutely incomprehensible. No competent military officer would ever leave his vessel adrift, disabled but intact. A competent military officer would scuttle his ship to keep its technology and weaponry from falling into the wrong hands. "

Mr. Wong obviously forgot that Stargazer took battle damage beforehand, and that auto-destruct might have been offline. Such thing happened in few Star Trek episodes.



"We also see that it attempts to "flank" the Enterprise, and Picard's response indicates that gaps in the firing arc of Federation starships have not changed much from the days of Captain Kirk. Without gaps in its firing arcs, there would be no point to a flanking maneuver. "

Except that most of GCS firepower comes from its torpedo launchers, which are unable to hit targets flanking GCS.



"Naval Tactics: the Enterprise is very close to the Lysian Command Centre as seen below, yet it's still not in "optimum firing range!" "

Actually, we know from several previous episodes about backlash damage. Which means that "optimum firing range" is greater than range displayed, not lower.


"If it takes almost all of the USS Enterprise's 275 photon torpedoes to do this, then we can conclude that photon torpedo yield is between 110 and 450 kilotons (keep in mind that this is a rather generous estimate since the asteroid was hollow so it was obviously not well-consolidated, thus making it easier to fragment). "

Not only they needed to destroy "Pegasus" and its cloaking device (which is around meter in height and lot less in diameter, if I recall correctly); they needed to do it in way that Romulans would never discover that Pegasus had any illegal cloaking device on-board, or that ship ever existed in first place. Finding piece of rock with Federation hull fragment embedded in it would pretty much point out both of these facts to Romulans. And rest of Starfleet, since it seems that Section 31 was behind all that. Which means they required vaporization, giving us yields in low gigatons.

Imperial shields

Mike Wong estimated that ISD's survived 30 minutes of battle with Mon Cal cruisers before losing shields. Heavy turbolasers are 1.5 megatons and medium ones are 15.6 kilotons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oma9uPz9YYk

Here we have corvette pumping out 5 shots per second and ISD 2-3 per second. If we take ISD being able to fire 1 heavy turbolaser shot every 8 seconds (as it seems from movie - at around 6:28 at 6:36 we have same ISD firing one heavy shot), that translates in 9000 medium and 225 heavy shots - or 126.45 to 925.2 megatons for shields of Mon Calamari Star Cruiser. ISD's shields should be similar in strength or slightly stronger (maybe up to 150 to 1500 megatons), althought EU states that MonCal star cruisers had stronger shields, and ISD's better amor. So ending value would be 130 to 1000 megaton shields for ISD.

UPDATE: I have been warned that Mike Wong's estimation for 30-minute battle is wrong - time of entire battle is less than 30 minutes, and ISD's start losing shields long before that. I will have to re-watch movie later (I currently don't have enough time) and make my own estimates.

UPDATE 2: I have made estimates at my site.

Blueprints